I wanted to make a repost of an old post of Tillie's I saw today.

Posted: 11 June 2013 - 03:20 PM
"Stepping out of squalor" "take one step at a time" is for hoarders and messies ONLY.
People who are not a hoarder or messy should not post there. But reading there is very motivational and encouraging.
I am tolerated there because I seldon post and NEVER give out any advice.

Cory's message board here, "HOARDING CLEANUP" is the only online site that is for everybody.
Hoarders, messies, people who know a hoarder, children of hoarders, people who want to work with hoarders and neat & tidy people who live in a squalorous hoard with a hoarder.

Cory's message board here is so very important to me.
It gives me encouragement when I want to give up.
Seeing you all work so hard to declutter gives me hope that some day maybe my hoarder will get on board too.
:)

Dianne,

Thank you. At the grocery store I see something called free range chicken. We seem to have a "Free Range Hoarder" site here, honoring the Diversity, Creativity and Independence of Hoarders and Those Who Support them. As a result information gets scattered about.

When I saw the diversity of information in some of those threads, I wondered if I could facilitate "poster helping" speaking to "poster in need" with some of those old posts.

I hope it's helpful to someone.

This will take you to the home page of a site called Stepping Out of Squalor.


http://takeonestepatatime.proboards.com/

thank you all for your posts. for your honesty. for your understanding. for your compassion.
Dianne can you give the URL of the other hoarding site?

I am taking a break. (If I was being my independent self, I would be stopping. Since I'm looking for the support, I'm taking a break.)

This is going to be very nice. I have 3 counter corners and 3 stove burners that are ideally cleaned off once a day. Sometimes goes to every 2 days or in a really bad situation, 3 days. The time they are clean is usually in the middle of the day so Mrs Dave never gets to see the clean spots (unless she does the cleaning). Tomorrow morning when she comes to the kitchen she will see the little flow through working areas clean.

I have two of the counter areas and the all the stove areas cleaned. All the remaining dishes are piled where I can see them on the last counter area.

Ok, I am not stopping. I am going back to the sink.!!!!!!!!!!

Making post so maybe I will actually get it done-forcing myself to wash dishes before I go to bed so kitchen will be more orderly in the am.

Dianne,
I see you've made some more nice posts. I am unravelling some myself (like fear of death-I've been upright in bed in the middle of the night a couple of times the last week trying to cope with that issue) right now in addition to being tired and I am not going to try to make any additional response at the moment.

Back to fresh dish water. :)

The so could I coordinate volunteers to..........

post was an example of one thought process I came up with as to how someone might approach things.

Say the person was a veteran. Say their neighborhood in their community has a neighborhood cleanup each spring. And the veteran has a seriously hoarded living place. And the veteran wishes to change. So maybe he/she could talk to a commander of a local legion post and see if it could be arranged for some help to get stuff out of the house in the appropriate time frame. and then maybe this post commander could also help in talking with the trash pickup organization for the cleanup to see if arrangements can be made for an extra large pickup at this one location.

Just saying that understanding the subsets of the task may suggest ways to ask for help that the umbrella task doesn't.

Too abbreviated.

Think about all of the "drive by" posts on the site. And our responses.

Generically - the posts are I am in desperate straits or a member of my family is in desperate straits with their home filled with junk and trash and possessions and no resources or will to make change.

The generic response - post in daily chat and try this and this to see if you can get a little encouragement.

Clearing clutter is the change sought but that is a costly proposition.

It takes a DESIRE to change. It takes people to move stuff. It takes people and vehicles to remove stuff. It takes people to support a desire to change. It takes people and stuff to restore a cleaned living place. In America today, all that takes money. Somebody without money trying to accomplish the broad objective of "hoarding/clutter cleanup" is going to have to look at those broad areas and find ways to get help with each of them.

I have substituted books for the paid psychologist. I have substituted 1 person's effort and time for a cleaning crew. I have substituted the cost of a monthly trash cart and time for the effect of a dump truck. (And since I no longer have a job-even those things are becoming much more expensive relatively speaking.) The income from Mrs Dave's and my jobs and help from someone else have paid for "restoration (ie repairs of broken house parts) to date.

I think many of those "Help!" posters don't even have those "luxuries". No income beyond food and housing. Physical constraints. Mental contraints. Unable to drive or unable to afford a vehicle if they can. No money for trash so they save it in the house. Unuseful habitual mental thought patterns. To get out of their circumstances, they will have to find some way to address at least those 6 areas I mentioned.

Dianne,
Palmer, Clutter Busting (orange book)

Page 1 second paragraph.
Page 5, first paragraph under heading.

These are examples of the words that make me like Brooks Palmer. How do I start? Where do I start? What do I do?

I don't have to get analyzed to start. I don't have to understand my childhood to start. I don't have to have a "system" to start. All I have to do is pick up a piece of stuff and ask questions.

Do I like you? Do you make feel good? Are you useful to me now? You can make cycles through things this way.

I was just looking through chapter headings in the book. There are concepts that help you deepen that approach.

We assume false identities in clutter.
Clutter keeps us living in the past.
Clutter represents fear of change.
clutter as punishment.

If all that is so helpful, why do I still have difficulties? Probably still unwilling to make hard choices. May need help I am unwilling to admit to. Don't have all the answers. This has just been more helpfulto me than a lot of other things.

dianne,

The help me, i can't live in my house anymore and i don't have any money posts. and the look for resources responses.

when I try to remember from a few of the A&E episodes I saw, what I am thinking about is labor, logistics and change. In a transition from commercial (cleaning service) or entertainment (tv program) to charity how do those things and their costs get covered?

There need to be people to do the work of moving things out of the home. They need supplies like masks, gloves, water, food, toilet facilities and ....??? .

Then the things have to be moved entirely off the site. That takes vehicles, more people, hauling supplies, dump and disposal fees and ........?? .

(So could I find a way to co-ordinate volunteers from some community service organization putting stuff from my house on the curb to be picked up by trash service during a neighborhood cleanup week/weekend?)

AND the hoarder has to change and be willing to let go of stuff. I think in program after program cory and matt's abilities to help were thwarted by the hoarder's unwillingness to make any change.

You pointed out the need for support for the hoarder, both in letting go of stuff and in broader life issues.

And there is then resoration of the homestead to some level of utility.

I guess I am not sure, but maybe you have been through this yourself recently.

Also not sure how to get that put down in a way that is useful, or if it is. I really can't relate well to the circumstances of some of the posters here.

re food
That's where you use memories of refrigerator cleanings to inform your decisions. I have a drawer full of salad topping kits that were discussed with Karl Tillie and diane last spring. they are still there. I pulled a grey shirt out of the closet and thought it looked like dressing in one of the salad kits-something I've promised to eat for several months but never have. I decided it could probably be on the to go pile.

:) :)

Dave, it's so funny that you suggested thinking about stuff as if I was moving in with my boyfriend - I've actually been using that question for stuff I'm on the fence about. Of course, he also has about half the amount of space that I have. But yes, I've definitely been thinking about it that way.

I'm trying to imagine thinking about clothing with the question if this was food, would you eat it? I've purged a lot of clothing. I'm not sure that question would help me decide on keeping something or not. I guess I have the same problem with food - sometimes I go grocery shopping and I get something because I think I'll eat it - but then I don't and it goes bad. If I ask if I would eat it, I'd probably say "well, I'm not hungry for this right now, but I might be tomorrow..." :)

Dianne, I'm glad you enjoy my long rambly posts. Often when I actually hit the post button and see how long it is I feel like I've gone on way too much, and if there was an edit button I would have been clicking on it. I'm glad you understand what I mean about how I could live in my hoard happily if no one else ever had to see it. But, you're right, decay sets in, repair people have to come in, and I like the idea that I could maybe have someone over. Or maybe next Halloween I won't be so embarrassed if my niece lets herself and her parents in.

Tatoulia, good for you for taking a few minutes to tidy your kitchen so it was nice to wake up to! I'm working hard on the kitchen, and I'm trying to clear as much cabinet room as possible. My boyfriend loves to cook so I'm trying to give him as much space as possible to arrange things to his liking.

My mom has amvets or someone coming over on Wednesday so I was hoping to get some stuff packed up today for them. I wonder if I could give them some of my old electronics, at least the ones that still work. I have a friend who is technically minded and I offered to give him an old computer that he can either use or upgrade or tinker with or whatever he wants as long as he doesn't bring it back and doesn't send it away without making sure that none of my important information is retrievable.

Today was a difficult day for me, insomnia, woke up early feeling sick and in a lot of pain, had to go to work because I'm covering for someone else, had a rough day at work, then after I had been looking forward to seeing my boyfriend all day, his mechanic told him that his car is STILL not ready. I stayed late at work to try to get caught up, and though I planned on trying to put together some stuff for donation tonight, I was just too exhausted and crabby when I got home to work on it.

I picked and ordered a replacement faucet for the kitchen and it arrived, I just need to schedule the plumber to come back and install it.

I hope everyone else's Monday was better than mine and that we all have a great Tuesday!

Hello everyone. Good to catch up on your posts. Read quite a few before going to bed last night but then stopped myself. Instead, I took the five minutes to unload my dishwasher, put the sink dishes into the dishwasher, hand washed the cat dishes (vintage Bunnykins), put away everything on the counters. Nice kitchen to wake up to today! Having cleared out the kitchen this summer, I have room in my cabinets for everything. Mel, getting rid of the stuff in my kitchen hurt my feelings in many, many ways but I don't miss a single item. I enjoy having space--nice comments re space, Dave.

Bitsy, Dianne and everyone else--Glad to read all of your posts and thank you for all motivating me to have an acceptable kitchen. Take good care, everyone. Missing Tillie and Diane and LR and Roxie.

The stuff besides the monitor are things types of things I see in Goodwill and DAV. If they still work, i think you could take them to thrift store as opposed to recycle center. The monitor I'm not sure about. (And a recycle center may charge you to take it.)

Sorry about the multiple posts-two other things I forgot-and these are ideas I need to remember the concepts of and use for myself.

In one of his blog posts Brooks Palmer posed a question-
If this was food would you eat it?
So one can hold up the shirt on the hanger in the closet. Does it still fit? Yes. If it was food would I eat it? No. Donation pile! (assuming it doesn't have holes, broken zippers etc.)

If I was moving to my boyfriend's house would I keep this? Is this worth a serious discussion with him about why I want it, how to have the space for it and what other thing I would give up to help make that space available?

Mel

Couple of fun ideas to discuss with your counselor. (Concepts from Brooks Palmers orange book.)

Space is a thing too. Which is more important? The empty box or the space. The can of food or the space. the stereo set or the space. We probably need to hunt for a balance.

As I write i am also reminded about containers. A pickle jar holds pickles. A house is a container just like a jar. Rooms are a subset of containers within the house. And so on down the line. What is the purpose of each container? And how much repurposing creates a useful and enjoyable life style for us?

Talking to the stuff. Sit down sometime and talk to a bed or table or chair and see what it thinks about holding all the stuff that is on it.

Getting greenery under control is so hard! I'm lucky that I don't have too much but there is a lot of ivy all around my house. I decided to dress up as Poison Ivy for Halloween this year and I pulled some vines from around my house for my costume!

I do have Creeping Charlie in the yard. I don't know if that's the technical term or not, that's what my mom calls it :) but it's true that the yard is maybe 50% grass. I have Rose of Sharon bushes that would take over the whole yard if given the chance. I've had a lawn service mowing my lawn this year. It's expensive, but it's such a relief to come home from work and see it's been mowed and trimmed and I don't need to worry about it. On the negative side, when I used to mow it myself I would mow over any areas that were getting overgrown (which the service doesn't do).

bitsy, is there any update on the electric on the front porch? When is your relative coming to stay? I hope you're feeling better!

dave, thanks for the info on the inheritance clutter! I also talked to my counselor about it and she suggested that donating stuff without bringing it to my mom's first would be an act of kindness to her - she would just pack it up and put it into the basement (where it would become my problem eventually when my parents are both gone). I also have had the thoughts about what happens when I'm gone and someone has to sort through all of MY stuff. I work in a medically-related field and I see every single day that none of us are promised tomorrow, no matter how young or seemingly-healthy we are. A few years ago I remember thinking that I hoped I didn't die while my house looked like it did because I felt so horrible about someone having to come through and try to sort through all my stuff.

Dianne, I totally understand not wanting to mingle with the adults. Sometimes it can be so much more fun playing with kids. I don't drink and I'm a quiet person who keeps to myself for the most part, so I often have a hard time mingling with other adults. Also, I don't have or want to have kids of my own, so I often have a hard time making conversation with most people my age because almost all of the ones I meet have kids. Plus I'm an introvert and once I'm around people for a certain amount of time, I need to go somewhere else to "recharge". I bet the kids loved playing with you!

Tatoulia, I love the idea of bringing those "free with purchase" items to work to share! My counselor also told me that there's a resale shop in our area that supports a shelter and they take donations of soaps, lotions, etc that they put to use at the shelter, so I'm thinking about putting together some stuff for them. One of my friends told me that at her workplace, they set aside a table at work in a corner of their lunchroom where people could bring stuff for others to take. It started out as a book exchange but then someone had a couple other things they asked if they could bring in and it turned into a nice place to exchange various stuff.

Diane, I hope your friend's husband is able to get stabilized and they are able to get back home and back to their regular lives soon!

So it's now officially November. My boyfriend is packing up his stuff to move in. His car ended up stuck in the shop until tomorrow so I picked him up and brought him here for most of yesterday and today. He told me tonight that he plans to be here every night this week. The downside is that I still have a lot more cleaning to do and I was thinking that he would continue to just be staying here a couple of nights a week so I could try to finish up the cleaning by the end of this month.

I talked to my counselor about my cleaner space. Again, it's not *clean* but it's *significantly* cleaner than it has been in, oh, about a decade. She asked if it makes me feel better that it's clean. the truth is... if I knew that no one but me would ever be in my house again ever, I could happily and easily live in my hoard. I only felt overwhelmed when I tried to clean it, and I only felt embarrassed if I knew/thought someone else was going to see it. I'm happy when I get stuff done now because it's one more thing marked off the list and one less thing that I have to worry about, but if I'd never met my boyfriend, the truth is I would probably still be living in/with my hoard and maybe getting rid of a few things, but not really making any serious progress.

I planned on making a trip to the electronics recycling that my village held on the 1st saturday of every month but they JUST canceled it. I was looking for the information on Friday to see where I needed to bring my stuff and I couldn't find it on the village website. Finally in my searching I found a blog post from Wednesday announcing that effective immediately, the electronics recycling program had been discontinued! Apparently there's one the next village over that has a program and their next dropoff date is on the 15th, so I'm going to do my best to have stuff ready to go to that one. I have a really old computer (running Windows 95 if that tells you anything!) I'd really like to get rid of but I'm far too worried about my data being stolen/found/retrievable by someone. Not sure what to do about that. But even without those things, I have an old stereo system, an old digital converter box, an old VCR, and an old huge monitor that need to go.

Next weekend I'm seeing a few friends and I'm bringing some stuff (more things out of my house!) - some exercise equipment, some dressy pants for a group my friend volunteers for, etc. Can't believe it's Sunday night again. Back to work tomorrow. On the plus side, the gal I've been covering for will be back in the office later this week so just a few more days of doing two jobs! Hooray!

Have a wonderful Monday everyone!

No experience with the first 3.

I have thought for several years that a stand of bamboo would be fun. One never knows when the odd panda will drop by. ( :) ) I read something in the last few days about bamboo-that in harvesting you are supposed to start in the center of the clump. That seems to pose a potential problem with encroachment. I may need to be rethinking the idea of bamboo.

I was just working amongst what I think is a large batch of ivy ground cover. It is definitely prolific - guess it depends some on whether that cover is useful. Then controlling the edges could become an ongoing issue. It is very pretty on the walls, but I have some in a different spot at this house which I am going to have to remove from the exterior building walls.

We have/had (I'm not sure which) a little clump of honeysuckle. It would show up in the spring and then die back in the summer. Not in an area I get water to easily. I think this past summer the heat and the quince did it in. Pretty flowers but the odor was a hay fever problem so it's not a big concern to us that it is gone.

Once started, the quince bushes seem to do well. I have let those go. I now want them not to extend more than around 4 feet from the fence, so I have pruned them short enough I can see the clumps in the ground. I am removing the clumps that are "too far out", and attempting to get good chunks of root too. I think I will have some control over them.

The trumpet vines are another story. (And coffee trees which I also have at my house.) I think I created an insoluable maintenance problem next to our house with the trumpet vine I planted there. we took out the main vine today, but I don't think I can get all the roots that are in the ground. Same with coffee trees. I don't think I will ever be able to get all the roots that have come into a corner of our yard from next door.

So in the "my life" subset of the universe, it's trumpet vine, coffee tree and quince. Some additional problems from ivy. (And then there is some kind of grass that grows everywhere and into everything-I have to pull that out of siding around the foundation.)

Dave,
Re:
Trumpet vine "evil sentient life form bent on world domination!"

In scariest order.
Chinese wisteria
Kudzu
Privet
Bamboo
honeysuckle
Ivy
.and some people say lily of the valley but I can't agree with that.

little work on trumpet vines in my yard-then coffee tree etc shoots in family members yard

Hi all,

Just a quick pop in here before I head over to Home Depot. I'm getting ready to put the plastic up on the windows for winter (probably should have done that last week but I didn't make it to the home depot.

Last night my 2 year old niece came trick or treating with her parents. When I turned around to get my camera to take her picture, she let herself in (she's been to my house before) and her parents followed along behind her. My sister in law has never been in my house and my brother hasn't been in it in years. I looked around after they left and realized that though it is relatively clean, it's not really clean, and I felt really uncomfortable and embarrassed.

So rather than beating myself up about it, I'm trying to take it as a reminder that even though I've made a lot of progress, I still have more to do. Today I sorted through my huge pile of shoes and got rid of a bunch of them that I had been hanging on to even though they had soles coming off, big holes, etc. I kept only the shoes I wear semi-regularly. I also packed up my Halloween costumes into a box to go into storage.

My boyfriend's car is in the shop so he's coming over later on when it's finally fixed, so I'm trying to use that time to pack some things up/sort through them/etc. Now going to get the plastic for the windows and a couple other things. Hope everyone had a nice Halloween!

nobody wants to be squished.

I save the clear plastic peanut butter jars and take the labels off. (This is extreme, but sometimes will use goo-gone to clean off the glue area and sometimes not.) I have one of those filled with an assortment of spare bulbs for flashlights. that has been very helpful-but I think now some of those may be excess. If I spend the money for the led bulbs, I think that reduces the frequency of replacement compared to the filament bulbs and I don't quite know how to judge what I need for spares now.

I just got a little head flashlight from harbor freight. It has a very small pin type bulb. Not sure if I can come up with an led upgrade for that.

Hoarding Bathrooms? (!! :) )

I've been hoarding trumpet vines. Have discovered that is probably a mistake. Found a forum post about them describing as evil sentient life form bent on world domination! I have (attempted) trumpet vine control in my future.

Hello all, great seeing your posts Dave Dianne, bitsy, love to hear what you are up to and all the good you are blessed with.
Dianne like your grandma story. Reminded me of the out house we had when I was a kid, and when we moved in town when I was in second grade, and had first indoor toilet. 5 kids, 2 parents, 1 bathroom. Now I live alone and have 2 bathrooms, talk about grateful!!!
Max is here for the weekend, my flu shot boss's dog I dog sit for, so happy to have him here. It has been a year since my dog died, and I am finally ready to start looking for my next best friend. Dog sitting has helped fill the gap, and helped me financially. Still fearful of having a dog with a medical problem, so resistant to getting a dog for that reason. Molly had Kidney disease.
Today is a rainy cold day, so happy I have started a fire in wood stove and it is warming up and that Max is here.
Dishes are making my kitchen look like a hoarder, plan to tackle them soon since max is napping. Wanted to connect with you, without group I go back to old clutter behaviors. I cleaned all floors before I picked up max yesterday after my last clinic. One more clinic in November, but feel relief not working next 2 weeks, plan to get lots caught up here with support from group.
This morning let out seams on Max's camo jacket that was too tight, made him a new toy, looked at what I am grateful for.
My favorite nurse to work with is in Seattle with her husband in the hospital. They went to seattle for funeral, he fell, to ER, then to surgery for his neck, then back to surgery for excess bleeding, one arm still paralyzed, I have lost sleep over this, worried sick. They have been happily married 48 years, golden life, then this. Can not manage his pain, neither is sleeping, makes my "problems" seem so insignificant. Grateful I dropped a few walls and became their friend past several years, and much more since being on this site. Reminds me that the joy of friendship is greater than the pain of sorrow being in friendships.
A normal friend called yesterday and said she heard hoarders find it safer to be surrounded by stuff than people, mostly because no warm human connections as a child. Was true in my case growing up in country with no neighbors and a crazy mom. So greatful I have the friends I do have and letting go of guilt of not connecting more, understanding I have come a long way from no connections at all, to friends I love and trust. Thanks for all you post on your thoughts about your situations and progress, helps me learn more about life

Walmart has regular type flashlight bulbs in several varieties.

2aa, c cell, d cell and lantern. Some of them are also available in led.

If you use any of the hand lanterns that take the 6v square battery around the "homestead", the led bulb for it is very nice. (you have to look at package labels a little bit, I think that one is labelled for 4 d cells.)

I've not gotten into mini bulbs so I don't know about them.

if you have time try to watch some of this you tube video

From:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Kypyb2Jcuc
We're Not Getting Any Younger: Clutter and Aging

Gayle Goddard

Published on Jun 27, 2014
As we age, our clutter problems get more complicated by the needs of elderly parents or loved ones, our desire to share mementos and family history, and our own physical limitations. At our June meetup, we'll explore clutter-related issues that arise with aging. We'll suggest strategies that you and your family can adopt to ease the burden of future clutter. Gayle Goddard, professional organizer and owner of The Clutter Fairy in Houston, Texas, facilitates the Houston Clutter Coaching Meetup Group.

Everyone, I am so touched by the loving posts here. What a nice group of people. Bitsy, I am sorry you are not feeling well and the anxiety with the impending visit from your relative must be making things very difficult. I encourage you and support you and hope that there is a way to get you inside, even if it's just a little space.

Dave, you are just do thoughtful and gentle. How nice to read your posts. Dianne, I love the stories about reading to the animals. That must be a very sweet part of your life, watching your daughter take such care to keep the pets occupied!

Mel, you are amazing! I too through out old bras, face creams, make up removers, etc. and now, when I buy new bras, it's out with the old! If there's anything in the "gift with purchase" that I won't use, I immediately take the makeup samples to work and let my co-workers see which makeup sample they'd like. I learned a lot while cleaning my place, including that free stuff takes up as much room as stuff I paid for, so I do my best not to let it in the house in the first place!


Everyone, I so enjoyed catching up on your posts. I hope Diane and Tillie and Roxie and LR and everyone else know how much I miss them.