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Hoarding Help Message Boards : How to Help a Hoarder : Hoarders Latest Excuse-No Access To Their Stuff To Sort Through It
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Hoarders Latest Excuse-No Access To Their Stuff To Sort Through It

Posted: 09 October 2020 - 11:19 AM
Hi Helprejected :)
Good to hear you are doing alright.

Great she finally got her stuff out of that house!
We knew she would drag it out to the last minute. ;)

That's good that she could probably pass inspection except for kitchen & bathroom.
But of course there is no forward progress without somebody there daily to keep her at it.
She does NOT want to change and sees no reason to change.
That's the long time hoarding mindset.

I think the care home facilities and health departments are finally figuring out how to manage care homes during this pandemic.
But it is still scary how badly they have been hit and how easily the virus spreads in them.

Happy you are doing well.
Please keep taking care of yourself and know you have done everything possible to help her and would do even more now if she would let you (((HUG)))
Posted: 09 October 2020 - 09:31 AM
Hello. Hope all is well with everyone. Update with mixed news.

The first deal and second deal fell through on house. Good news the hoarder finally got her stuff out 10 days prior to the first scheduled close. What a difference. I really regret not pushing more but she obviously waited until the last minute in part because she wanted to see if we were actually moving. I think when she saw 'under contract' online she finally got it.

There was alot of other stuff in the house but removing her stuff made moving other stuff easier and wouldn've probably motivated others to get what they wanted out earlier and made things less frantic. Along with attracting another buyer or two. And we were able to do a few small cheaper things in an emptier house.

I stopped by her place and there is just zero progress, not necessarily worse but no progress and now the bathroom is becoming an issue with stuff including mail on the edge of the sink bowl. She blames health but won't hire help/nurse partly because fear of virus. I told her since I moved away from area I'd still help on occassion and offered to do a massive clean and straighten over a 2-3 period. The problem room could be done in a day but I told her I'd start in am and want windows open for ventilation. Nope. I told her you can't stretch this out, I'll donate as much as I can but now she's back to trying to sell it.

I think she could actually pass some inspections except for bathroom and kitchen which are her biggest problem areas because she puts stuff right to edges of the sinks which get wet, stained and look like trash after a point.

If it weren't for the virus I think she would've been forced into a nursing home by someone at this point. Ironic what she fears the most is actually keeping her in her home.

Stay well everyone
Posted: 04 July 2020 - 02:24 PM
Hi Subclinical :)

Yeah, we already discussed that and the hoarder knows.
We think she may be hoping the new owners will allow her to keep her things and store them there for free for ever.

This hoarding person seems to not be wanting to believe in the reality as to how the world works.
Deep in denial and making up crazy excuses.
Posted: 04 July 2020 - 01:57 PM
When is the closing?

Here, anything left in the house at closing belongs to the new owners. How is it there?
Posted: 03 July 2020 - 03:40 PM
Hi Helprejected :)

How so very, very frustrating :(

Yes, so common.
May blame the movers for their mess ever 20+ years after the move.
She blames you too since you have had to move some things in the house over the years.

Here, I am always blamed for the mess and lack of maintenance even though I haven't touched anything.
He just blames me for it not being organized and accuses me of getting rid of/damaging things.
Everybody else is to blame but the hoarder.

Hope you have a workable plan, even if only temporary where you can put all that stuff.
Bet she would quickly rent a storage unit if she saw all her stuff sitting out on her front lawn.
I know that sounds harsh but by now you know you need drastic measures to get her to take any action.

You have been so much more patient with her than most any other person would have been.
You have bent over backwards.
You cannot allow her sickness to infect your life.
You need resolution.

Wishing you all the best of luck (((HUG)))
Posted: 03 July 2020 - 08:59 AM
Hello Tillie

Thanks for your thoughts apparently I still need all the luck I can get.

First inspection done. Noted was a lot of stuff in the house which made some areas inaccessible. They inspected the sun room lifting some carpets etc but one entire side was her stuff. Same for garage which has alot of her stuff. That being said we negotiated a numerical settlement and don't have to do/pay for issues yet.

BUT she has yet to rent a storage unit. Also when told the house was officially sold she started crying or getting emotional. She said she was crying for her deceased friend but these weren't tears of joy she was a bit rattled. That being said now her excuses for not renting a storage unit include the property manager is mean, corporate policy different than local, she lost her credit card(but said they'll take checking information for auto pay). Already told her most banks will send out a new card in 3 days and you can have one over nighted if you wish-nope she wants to find the lost one.

She's tries to deflect or cover by talking about how she is going to organize her unit, what she is going to do with her stuff, gives me directions there etc. Giving meaningless detail if accurate is a common tactic of hers to make it 'seem' like she has everything under control. She also is continuously talking about her ailments(many are legit/treatable but she doesn't want to deal with them. She's tries to guilt me by saying I will get my stuff out of your house first that is the priority) Told her over and over just rent the unit. "But I want to be there".

She is also losing control of her home again. I will say she pulled a lot of stuff seeing what she could sell but she already has had a list for years now. Because of her issues she basically has put her entire life in the kitchen-not good including a lot of paper product. Same for the bathroom. She needs regular help and visits(which she refuses to to pay for saving for a nursing home of her choice which would be even more money; $2500-$5000/month more.

I purchased shelves, padlock for her and offered to rent a truck and/or pay for movers(which she interprets as rushing her and now takes swipes at me saying I'm frequently impatient with her). And she is still making gratuitous/meaningless offers of finding someone to help move it for her.

I should've learned my lesson when she told me she found her current place days before she had to move out of her old. She still partially blames that rushed move on conditions 1//4 century later.

Posted: 21 June 2020 - 11:25 AM
Hi Helprejected

YEA! the house has sold.
Fingers crossed for a good inspection outcome.
Sorry that this hoard has cost you financially on the price of the house.
So unnecessary after all you have done to help her move her things out.

They are extra hostile and making up even more reasons to fight and argue with you because they know the sale of the house has them backed into a corner.
This is hoarding disorder at it's worst, when they know they have no way out.
No more excuses as to why they can't do it.
I am so sorry you are being subjected to this tirade (((HUG)))

Do you have a plan in place should she still be dragging her feet at closing?
I would inform her the stuff WILL be disposed of if she has no acceptable place to store it.
But I know you have restrictions as to how you can deal with her.

Whatever your future plans are PLEASE do not move that stuff with you to your new home.
And I hope nobody else offers up space in their homes too.

It is very sad that all these years you have not been able to enjoy the space of that sunroom.
You had to open the windows occasionally so of course there is sun and moisture.
Anything stacked up and stored for any length of time will have natural decay, it's only natural.
But I know she will want to blame you for anything she thinks did negligently.

Don't listen, know you have done more than most would have done to try to help.

Good luck and best wishes ((((HUGS))))
Posted: 21 June 2020 - 09:53 AM
Well more mini booms. Any single word could trigger them in a flash. If they dont hear want they expect-BOOM. Then they raise their voice and over talk and accuse you of being nasty. If they don't explode they wind up reminiscing or giving their life story based on one word. But every single word is reacted to in some manner. They are more hyper defensive than usual.

Alleged good news is that they said they are in the final stages to renting a unit and it could be done by phone. As the day was approaching they lost their credit card so now they have to do everything by check which is ok but her bank needs paperwork to. And now we're back to ailment of the day preventing them from actually signing up. They are constantly seeking pity, sympathy or attention for they ailments they do nothing about. Then they try to guilt you by saying well I have to get my stuff out of your house first. I think they get made when I don't say things "take your time" but I've always encouraged seeking treatment and offered rides/help to doctor.

They are also now complaining about damage/ possible damage. They knew for decades much of their stuff was stored in a no a/c or heat sun room. She was stunned/miffed to find out we opened the windows there with regularity. She wondered why they're might be dampness or sun issue with her boxes after I told some of the boxes had some. She was absolutely stunned, befuddled we opened windows in a room with her stuff.

She also know cherry picking previous statements, conversations, etc basically accusing me of lying and his contorting if not lying with what things she remembers. It's like she's trying to play a blame of gotcha.

And to save on storage to wants us to place items in places that almost got her evicted a year ago. I told her I'm not doing it. Then she tries to guilt you again by saying she'll need help with her stuff in storage. Again I offered to help several times a year as would others. Then she finishes by saying she'll just have to learn to do it on her own as in see what you are making me do.

In the meantime the house sold amidst comments of the stuff in the house. The amount of stuff probably costs at us an additional five figures and we still must past inspection. Have to wonder what they think about alot of that stuff.

And yes subclinical they are miffed their free storage is being sold. Along with free assistance. In a few moments of desperation early on she even offered me a 'loan' to buyout other family members to keep the house I don't want. She suddenly became very stern-'I would have to be paid back asap'. You could hear the desperation. And this is the person that does not want to spend a few thousand on her own storage or medical care is all of the sudden wants to loan a huge sum of money. She only brought it up a few times.

Hopefully she has a storage unit soon because we even have a settlement date.

Everyone stay well, stay safe.
Posted: 13 June 2020 - 12:08 PM
Yep Subclinical

When the plan to put the house up for sale was mentioned the person verbally chastised and abused Helprejected telling them that selling the house was a very stupid thing to do.
An attempt to get them to not sell the house.
Posted: 13 June 2020 - 08:57 AM
I am thinking they may be fully aware that leaving the stuff there is interfering with the sale of the house. Why would they want their free storage sold?
Posted: 12 June 2020 - 11:49 AM
Good Morning Helprejected

Feeling like you are rushing them after ALL this time!!!
Sorry but that made me laugh hysterically.

You have been begging for so many months now that they have to find another place to store all that.

I have a sneaky suspicion that they plan to try to talk any new owners into keeping it there.
Just like they want to find storage facility workers to move, organize and let her keep stuff there rent free.

She will not change.
When a person has been hoarding for so many decades and sees no reason to change, they won't.
Only way to get them to act is by force.
Not giving them any wiggle room out. Not allowing them to be in control any longer.

This is why cities, counties, adult protective services, child welfare authorities have to set strict deadlines.
If the conditions/terms of the citation are not met they take matters into their own hands because they know it's the only way to get things done.
It's not to be cruel or uncaring.
But they know how a person with hoarding disorder thinks and will try everything to keep things just as they are.

Best wishes for the sale of the house and a peaceful resolution to the stuff being moved.
Posted: 12 June 2020 - 08:58 AM
Hello Tillie. Trying to stay well and sane. Thanks

Well another boom. I made a casual offer/suggestion that I would hire movers to get her stuff into a storage unit to make it easier on everyone. I presented as a possibility. Instant BOOM. She considers that unnecessary pressure to get her stuff out. She considers it as being rushed,said it was like giving her a deadline. Well they were told over a year ago we would be moving and selling the house. And given months without a formal deadline which turned into enabling. But it confirms what I first suspected her plans were to get the stuff out only before the new owners move. She refuses to accept the volume of stuff is affecting possible sales, the house is currently listed and being shown.To me a house being up for sale would be a deadline and motivation for me to my stuff out in an expeditious manner. Not her.

Stay healthy and safe!
Posted: 10 June 2020 - 10:56 AM
Good Morning Helprejected :)

Yes, you are still stuck between a rock and a hard place.

Getting a court order to get her a storage unit in her name would be such a blessing for you!
Hope that becomes a reality.

Happy to "see" you posting today.
Stay well, stay healthy.
Posted: 10 June 2020 - 10:21 AM
Thank you subclinical for the suggestion. I thought about it but for legal reasons it simply can't be done. As Tillie noted the storage unit said they can't do a rental in another person's name without a court order(which still might come at this rate). Also besides being financially responsible for the unit it could be a liability issue as well if something of hers was damaged she could blame us. And if I wanted to rent a storage unit in the future there I would be on record as a non paying tenant. I could just bite the bullet pay the storage unit their clean out fee when officially/properly cancelling the unit. But that's an issue too because what if there is some hazmat in some of those boxes because I see what she does in her apartment including putting paint thinner in unmarked jars.

The frustrating part now is with covid signing for a unit is easier in some cases, no contact required and stuff can be done on line. She refuses because she wants to see the unit she wants to rent. She's been to one facility almost a 1/2 dozen times and I've seen pictures of inside the unit. She's claiming the frame work for the metal walls will cost her too much square feet/won't be able to squeeze the stuff and/or shelving she wants.

If it's not one of her existing ailments she's now claiming she thinks she might have the virus over the last couple of weeks. And says going to a storage unit would increase her chances of getting it at this time. In meantime I get meaningless lip service 'Oh I know I have to get my stuff out'.
Posted: 31 May 2020 - 02:44 PM
That's true Subclinical.
But there is family relationships involved in this matter.
There would be retaliation by the hoarding person and it's a whole bunch of emotional abuse going on here. :(

For legal reasons storage rental businesses must get proper ID, addresses and all that in case the storage unit renter decides to store dead bodies, explosives or make meth in the unit, etc.
So the person who signs the contract is on file as responsible and this hoarder keeps coming up with lame excuses as to why they can't go sign the contract.
This person is aged and does have some physical limitations and is using this excuse whenever they do not want to do something.
Posted: 31 May 2020 - 11:00 AM
I guess I didn't realize there were any legal concerns beyond losing ownership of the items if one doesn't pay the rent on the storage unit. That was why I was thinking I would find a place that would take cash - no way to keep charging me.

It seems like with stuff left on one's property and no legal storage agreement one could simply serve notice of abandonment and dispose of the stuff - or put it on the curb. Landlords do it all the time.
Posted: 31 May 2020 - 10:45 AM
Hi Subclinical

That is what the hoarder has been trying to get Helprejected to do.
Sign the storage unit contract so Helprejected will be the one responsible for the unit rent.
Then use that against Helprejected should it come to losing the possessions due to nonpayment.

Helprejected has wisely decided not to sign the contracts to remain separate from any legal financial obligations.

The person Helprejected is trying to help has been looking for free labor and free storage and would drag Helprejected down with their constant manipulation, causing a lot of conflict and grief with other family members.

The hoarder has been dragging their feet all along with lame excuses for everything as to why they can't/won't sign the rental agreement themselves.
Posted: 31 May 2020 - 09:48 AM
If I were the people trying to sell the house, I would find the cheapest nearby storage option, Put it in her name, pay the minimum amount on it in cash, move her stuff, and bring her the information - your stuff is here, it is paid for this long, we will be happy to help you sort through it or move it to another location, but we will not pay any more to store it, so on this date it defaults and becomes the property of the storage place if you don't start paying it.
Posted: 26 May 2020 - 12:32 PM
Great to hear from you Helprejected! :D

Been wondering how you were.

So sorry to hear she is still the same with the same old worn out excuses.

Yes, nowadays people want to see houses cleared out and staged.
And this pandemic isn't helping at all with trying to sell.

She would have to hire people to help her with whatever she wants to do at a storage place.
Storage employees basically only accept rent payments and keep an eye on the place.
So tell her to give up on looking for free help from them and accept your generous offer to move her belongings and later hire people to rummage through it for her.

I know she will balk at that suggestion and find even more reasons why she can't.

Wish you could call in reinforcements to help you.
You need to move on and sell that property, get on with your own life.
Wish I knew the magic spell that would help you.

You take care. Stay safe and healthy. :)
Posted: 26 May 2020 - 07:13 AM
Hello, hope everyone is getting through the virus and shutdowns ok

The virus and lock downs killed some potential sales of a house where the hoarder is storing stuff. So as things are opening up we decided to try to sell the house with a realtor that wants pictures etc. And when showing the house previously comments were made on the amount stuff still in the house. Told the hoarder this. So almost a full year later she using the same excuses-she doesn't have 24/7 full access to her stuff to sort through it. She's full of crap. For starters she was told once her stuff is out of the house and in storage we will help her sort, organize etc. The second is she has been offered/given many opportunities with help time to come over and go through her stuff-she'still miffed it isn't front and center in display fashion for her to route through. And last but not least her physical health has limited what she can do for YEARS at this point. Nothing new.

She thinks she only has to get her stuff out before the new owners take over/settlement.

The good news storage unit companies have made signing up for one easier. Bad news after seeing multiple units several times she still can't decide AND still wants a unit where staff might help her. Problem is now in the virus environment with no contact, social distancing etc property managers that weren't supposed to help customers before now have a perfectly justifiable reason, not excuse to not help her. So now the delay is finding a unit where she might be able to convince staff to help her(using disabled senior lady as an excuse) but even staff has said it's called self storage for a reason.

Posted: 22 July 2019 - 03:19 PM
Hello Helprejected
Good to see you again.

Yes, Summertime is a busy time of year.
Hope you are staying cool and finding time to enjoy life.

That is progress.
Allowing you to drop by whenever you have the time and letting go of a few broken items.
Unfortunately it's just a drop in the bucket with all she needs to do there.

It is very surprising just how much and how quickly a hoarder can jam so much random stuff into an area!
Scary actually.

Yep, blaming everybody else for the state of the place is way too common.
I am always blamed for the cluttered mess because I refuse to allow him to clutter up the living spaces in here.
He sees the clear clean spaces and thinks how he could pile up stuff there.
So I am being completely unreasonable, selfish and stingy according to him.

Actually he is the selfish one by making the entire yard, garage, carport & driveway completely unusable.

Piling up her kitchen with fire hazards is totally unacceptable.
A "staging area" is never supposed to interfere with areas that have a set purpose/use.
But I'm sure she has a million excuses as to why she mustdo it there.

So very sorry she's removing items from the donations.
This is why it's so important to try getting all donations and trash removed from their reach.
They start thinking about it and convince themselves just how necessary all that junk is for them to keep.

Here at home if I throw out anything into the garbage can I have to try to destroy it completely or he will pull it out.
Things like pickle jars, old phone books, anything that has not been completely rendered useless.
So frustrating to see garbage added to the heaps.

You are such a trooper!
WAY TO GO! for all you are doing and continuing to try to get through to her.
Wishing you all the best with this project and wishing you many wonderful experiences in your own life. (((HUG)))
Posted: 22 July 2019 - 12:46 PM
Hello Tillie. Been very busy. Thanks for asking.

The hoarder is still frustrating themselves and others by pushing things to the last minute again. They keep on stating the obvious they know they have to get their stuff out and a storage unit but nothing gets done. They are also again refusing organization like plastic containers which would eliminate a cardboard box fire hazard and piles of stuff issues.

The only progress is they didn't fight too hard on some broken stuff recenty nor me insisting on coming over on my free time. I told her theres' so much to do anytime and any help you can get you take it.

But they still wont take FULL responsibility for their hoard. Every time you talk about addressing the various issues it's I didn't put it there or it's not my fault. You would be stunned at how much a frail senior citizen women can drag, push, nudge,kick,toss etc into a room. After the fact she 'admits' she's responsible IF you bring it up. It's insulting at times. She also insists on making the kitchen her primary work area complete with a ton of paper on the floor, near a stove which does not make inspectors happy.

She's also taken the time to go back into her car to retrieve some stuff we put in their for donation because she says she needs it for another future project she'll never get to.

Eh, see if approaching deadlines and reality sink in.

Posted: 30 June 2019 - 08:35 PM
Hi Helprejected :)

Hope you are doing well.
Hope she is willing to make some quicker progress.
Posted: 22 June 2019 - 09:13 AM
Honestly, if she has three more years in the house, I would stop worrying about the big storage for now. Don't talk about finances, don't talk about end of life. It just uses emotional energy she needs for sorting and purging.

Keep bringing her stuff so that as she works she still feels like her home is full. Empty spaces actually become unsettling and there is an urge to fill them up.

First bring her all the things that are stored at other people's homes.

Once she is down to her house and paid storage, reassess.

You are doing great!
Posted: 22 June 2019 - 09:02 AM
subclinical thanks for the advice and it actually works.

I always try to avoid conflict and try to avoid anything that could turn into a debate or negotiation. I do to try to keep her moving forward and tell her not to dwell on one thing.

*Digression alert*.

She's still dragging her feet on one new bigger storage unit trying to save money. She has money to the point where even $2K in unit rental wouldnt hurt her finances that much. Yeh if she keeps that unit for 10-20 years. She's 3-5 years away from a nursing home tops. Considering one month in assisted living could run her up to 10K a month in some these places I try to put storage unit costs in perspective. She still doesn't buy it. Her pride won't let her accept the fact after that first year in a home her finances will be burned and medicare and health insurance would pick up the rest.She's afraid she'll be forced into a shared room. This is where she frequently starts talking I don't want to live then. I just ignore. I tell her end of life is strictly her decision. She really needs a therapist of somekind, not just for hoarding.

Another big issue is she cant' compartmentalize her big issues-work on home and find new storage. The days she's not actively seeking new storage or reducing her stored items she refuses to work on the stuff in her home. She's more worried about her stored items she hasn't seen in months/years. To me there is always something to be done which I try to emphasize to keep her moving.

I will try to encourage and reward as much as possible.

Thanks again for the advice.
Posted: 20 June 2019 - 04:57 PM
Helprejected, do you have any experience with improv?

One of the methods in improv is that you say "yes and..."

"Most of this stuff was dumped on me by other people..."

"...yes and you are doing a great job clearing it out."
"... yes and you shouldn't have to live with it"
"...yes and it will be great when we get this down to just the stuff YOU want to keep."

"Washing dishes shouldn't take this much effort and time."

"... yes and it will be a lot easier once we get the kitchen caught up"

Avoids conflict, keeps moving forward.

We don't want to admit we can do stuff because then people will expect us to do stuff and maybe it will be too hard tomorrow. Maybe tomorrow we will fail - again.

Whatever she is saying, it sounds like she is doing things she needs to do.

And great instincts on the snacks!
Posted: 20 June 2019 - 11:33 AM

Thank You to subclinical and Tillie(again!)

subclinical funny you mention a reward I brought her some canned drinks and prepacked dollar store snacks to eat while working.

Brought more boxes so out of 11 1/2 boxes she has 3 for donation and one trash. Only 7 boxes to go on this batch. Still has her home as well. She also generated one box of donation/resale out of her existing stuff in house.

She desperately needs a work & staging area which could come about by rearranging and better organization. She absolutely refuses to address that issue. I showed her a picture of what was behind her hoard in the only room overlooked/ignored by inspectors since a clear path to window was created. She complained and got upset. I'm trying to convince lets pull the stuff, clean and rearrange without having to decide the fate of everything-nope. He memory and eyes are such that she does not know where stuff is. She might know what is the room but not where it is. I'm debating how hard to push that issue because it's taking too long her way(micro management and one issue at a time no matter how easy)

BUT she keeps blaming her hoard on other people along while using her disability as an excuse. She continues to work hard to create that narrative. She's going back to when she moved in and got utilities, cable, phone hooked up/wired. Well how did the cable guy get access to a completely blocked closets & walls then,-see it's not my fault. Yet I visit a week later a senior disabled women was able to move chairs, boxes and other misc things. I've seen her nudge, drag, kick or carry numerous items. And she contradicts herself because she claims she was always independent and could do stuff for herself, it wasn't until the last few years. But the hoard was obvious for over decade.

I called it quits when started complaining while doing routine domestic tasks. "Life should be fun. I think this other stuff like washing dishes shouldn't take this much effort and time"
Posted: 14 June 2019 - 11:28 PM
Hello again Helprejected :)

I am impressed that she found about a box and a half to let go of out of 7 boxes of stuff.

That stuff has been boxed up for so many years she has absolutely no idea what is there and obviously has never needed one single thing in over 25 years.

Lip service acknowledging how long it would take a young healthy person wouldn't have the time or the need for that stuff is good progress.
She is coming from total resistance and denial to now a realization of the enormity of the situation.

Keep up the GREAT job!
Bring her more boxes to sort until she gets so fed up with it all that she allows you to get in there sorting out too.
Posted: 14 June 2019 - 03:14 PM

I have been reading your journey. I want to let you know up front that I am the hoarder in my house. After more than ten years of trying to make progress (and backsliding - two steps forward, one step back) the living areas of my house range from really nice, to "wow, this person has a lot of stuff." The mudroom is more "and they are a huge slob!" And the basement has gone from "impenetrable/someone could get killed" to "a giant mess/someone could get hurt"

And you may not want to hear this, but your hoarder made a huge step today. She got rid of more than 20% of what she was faced with. She managed to work at it for six hours! For someone who has been doubt almost nothing, that is huge!

The fact that she is starting to see this is going to take more time than she has is good, but it is not the only progress.

Your hoarder needs praise. She needs encouragement. And she probably doesn't have any idea how much stuff she has or where it came from.

I know you are angry, and you have a right to be. When I look at the way you put quotes around words, I feel like you are disgusted with your hoarder and no longer believe anything she says, which is sad for both of you. But I think somebody should go back tomorrow with more boxes and say "hey, you did such a great job yesterday, I thought maybe we could do some more today!"

And the somebody should sound like they mean it. And bring a reward - a small snack, a video to watch together, a game to play, paint her nails... an experience kind of reward that the hoarder will enjoy. So the hoarder will want to keep making progress and have the somebody keep returning.
Posted: 14 June 2019 - 11:12 AM
Me AGAIN Tillie

Well she was supposed to come to the house to sort through her stuff but called at the last minute to cancel-health issues again blah blah. So several boxes were taken to her. She wasn't thrilled but she did sort through some. BUT out of 7 boxes of stuff she was only to generate a little over a box and a half for donation or the trash over a 6 hour period. She says needs more time to look at those same boxes she already examined once. She also admits much of it's stuff she grabbed from a deceased parents house while cleaning it out 25 years ago. She 'says' she didn't realize she had that much of 'other peoples' stuff.

The only progress was at least got lip service acknowledging even a younger healthier person wouldn't have the time to go through and more important actually use the stuff what ever it may be wether it's a book to read or a physical project.

I don't how you do it. But you are not alone in your situation and have my support.
Posted: 11 June 2019 - 09:51 AM
My most sincere condolences.

She's had things go her way for so long that she probably truly believes that she will win this one too.

Stuck in a rut, same old/same old, don't rock the boat, if somethings not broke then don't try to fix it.
This is what I have noticed about my reluctant hoarder here.
They REALLY hate change.
Change of any kind, good or bad or for the best.

Personally, I feel that changing things up is good.
Keeps things interesting.

Her insisting on handling every single item is a way for her to keep control.
Her verbally abusive behavior is her way to try to make people go away and leave her alone.
Steven acts this way too.
So now he sits all alone out in his hoard, rummaging slowly through things, all alone.
Nobody ever visits, nobody ever calls.
I only speak to him when it is absolutely necessary so I go days & weeks without ever talking to him.
He is quite content being so miserable.

My sympathies go out to those people who's home she has cluttered up with her things.

Wish she would listen to you.
You have been working so hard to help, compromising and offering her options.
Will you continue?

Steven knows I am here and would help if he ever decided to change his ways.
Meanwhile, I live my life and leave him to his.
Posted: 11 June 2019 - 12:23 AM
Gluten for punishment here again.

As the deadlines get closer just talking about moving her stuff out and into one large storage unit makes her extremely combative, dare not disagree with her or you'll get a lecture. And again full of excuses including her health issues. She's at the point just to deflect-"I don't feel well, I think I'm sick". I thought part of that was just to generate sympathy or delay but she really doesn't want to face the fact she'll have to pay more to store her stuff.

Also on the enablers, she was cut off several years ago because they realized she wasn't going to budge. Their health slowly deteriorated over the last decade with both I guess waiting for the ideal time to get her stuff out. I also witnessed many of the same type of phone call where she's doing all the talking, lecturing, throwing a tantrum etc. And she won't give up on seeing/handling every single item before it is moved-wants to know why people are fighting with her on doing this
Posted: 05 June 2019 - 11:31 AM
Hello Again :)

There will always be some reason, some excuse.

Organizing that much stuff would be impossible unless she hired a crew of 20 people to work day & night on it for at least a month.

Those various people who have her stuff stored in their homes really should simply formally evict her stuff and be done with it.
Maybe then she would see her situation as it really is.
She just has too much stuff.
Plus allowing her to store things in their homes is enabling her, almost as bad a handing an alcoholic a bottle.

When she lists all her health issues remind her that when she's living in a nursing home she will only be allowed to bring the bare necessities with her and that you are desperately trying to help her remain independent in her own home.
Posted: 05 June 2019 - 10:06 AM
Hello. Another day new demands

The hoarder now want's stuff pulled for her by category. And she's been told over and over about her storage units and house that stuff is stored to make it fit, not for organization or accessibility. Then she says OK only pull easy access stuff for me. She's trying to shrink the amount of stuff before she puts it all in one big unit but again not that kind of time.

She's also implying if not outright asking that various people not move, repair or renovate in order for her stuff to stay put.

And of course 'the pressure' people have put on her to move or get HER stuff out is stressing her too much. She gives a list/description of her health issues every time her stuff comes up.
Posted: 04 June 2019 - 07:07 PM

Even if she could manage to take all her things to the various stores to sell them
I know she would just bring them all back home because the prices she would be offered wouldn't be the amount she wants for them.

I'm sure she expects to get top dollar but shops at most only pay half the going price for items.
They have to make a profit too.
Many shops can not afford to buy a lot of inventory at one time. They have budgets.

Plus so many things can be bought for pennies now due to places like eBay flooding the market.
Just look at what items actually sold there, not the listed asking prices.

Of course she has plans to use all those thousands of items she is planning on keeping.
I often ask Steven "just how long do you think you will live?"
He has more projects than he has years to do them.

I wonder if her inventoried boxes are still sorted or maybe she has rummaged through some looking for something and things might be all jumbled.
Posted: 04 June 2019 - 05:11 PM
Hello again.

Just wanted to say you nailed it in that she must 'touch' everything. EVERYTHING.

Like I mention the most common sentence out of her mouth 'I have to go through it first'. Should note she prides herself on a inventory with numbered boxes on alot of stuff packaged over a decade ago but she still wants to go through the boxes. She can't find it but luckily copies were given to friends where she stored stuff.

She is still trying to sell her first load of items to the store for sale of this year. She must have 100s of items in her home and else where and she's still trying to accumulate a dozen items to go. She says you always take extra in case the shop won't take it. Ok, you mean to tell me you can't find 20 items or so out of the hundreds you have???

She still also wants to go to various antique shops for the most bang for the buck. She says this shop is good for that, that shop is good for this. Her health might allow a couple trips to a food store or bank a week less than a mile down the road. Many of these shops 10-15 miles away. The extra time and energy to shop her goods is unachievable. Begging her get a cell phone plan with a camera phone so she can text pictures-nope.

Having a specific different desire or idea for every single item is not a workable plan. She conflates her ideas for an object with a practical plan. Uggghhh
Posted: 04 June 2019 - 04:15 PM
She is so deep in denial about the magnitude of her hoarded possessions!

Like "they" say...
You can't stuff 20 pounds of s*%@ into a 5 pound bag.

Wanting to personally touch every item would take a lifetime.

Getting her into some therapy is the only way she could ever possibly start to see the truth of the situation.

Hang in there. ;)
Posted: 04 June 2019 - 12:25 PM
Hello Tillie, Thanks yet again for your input.

It's just the illogic and denial. She's also trying to solve years and multiple issues at once by putting the 'extra' or 'good' stuff into one big storage unit. She has 3 5X5 storage units and an 8x5 FULL that will have to be moved. A manager that cut breaks on various issues is no longer there. She has over 6 dozen boxes in a private home along with numerous other things, bags, packages etc. Then she still has a stuffed bedroom and laundry room in own home. She wants to sort it all before it goes into one big storage unit. And she wants it laid out for her. Waist high only in smaller boxes and bags so she can handle it. Yet donating it is an affront to her.

But the blame shifting and outbursts. I no longer consider her emotional theatrics a delaying tactic or diversion. There are issues. She is a thread away from being reported.
Posted: 04 June 2019 - 11:30 AM

Hoarding is a real mental disorder.
Threatening suicide should always be taken seriously.
Anyone who is or may be a danger to themselves should be seen by a professional.
Her home is a danger to her too.
Her physical health is in danger both from the hoard and all the stress she is under.

If you do report her to the local authorities or a doctor for the suicide threats she may get the help she desperately needs but refuses to seek for herself.

Please don't be down on yourself.
You have done everything to help her that you can think of.
Sometimes we have to turn things over to someone else to handle.

Best wishes (((HUG)))
Posted: 04 June 2019 - 09:06 AM
The hoarder's latest excuse is they don't have enough access to their stuff to sort through it before they do something with it. Wether it's the mess in their own home or 24/7 access to a storage unit or someone else's house.They are working hard to form a narrative it's not their fault. They are doing gymnastics with their predicament and the truth.

For the most part they have needed help even their home 'sorting' through stuff. I've heard "I have to go through it" too many times. The point is the box or container of their stuff has to be moved/go. I don't care what's in it nor do the storage people or inspectors. It's their stuff. Removing it has nothing to do with sorting it which is their preference.

I guess it's the same with most hoarders but their hoard has been there for decades including other's homes. And they have been offered access and help. And they did actually go to these places on occasion which they'll deny.

One of the more frustrating infuriating parts is they are and have been handicapped/disabled. They did alot but they have a disability. It's gotten worse with age. They act like they want to be independent and doesn't need special consideration. Yet over the last several years she screams they don't take handicapped people into consideration when they build and design things. She even complains handicapped ramps or curb cuts are too steep for her without a scooter, wheel chair etc.

I hate to do it but for the first time I'm thinking of turning her in for her hoard and telling the authorities she needs psychiatric help because of emotional outbursts and suicide threats.
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