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Porter aka pain
Posted: 22 April 2017 - 01:06 PM
My apologies for over looking this response.
Thank you for your kind words.
I know we're not alone, and it's nice to hear the encouragement.
I've gotten busy , and I keep trying to stay busy.
I don't think I realized that my wife was actually a hoarder till I went and took pictures of every room. For an Insurance issue. And they dropped our coverage due to clutter.
At first I was shocked because we had things moved around to remodel after a leak In The kitchen.

When I looked through their lens. I saw it.
I started watching hoarding shows and browsing info.
More importantly I identified our home as a hoarders home.
Our insurance attached to our escrow tripled and pushed our payment out or range to pay. We fell behind. An Illness made it worse and we lost the home. I allow her to bully me with emotional snaps and fits. I moved everything she owned to a rental.
I couldn't move about half my stuff I kept in the garage. After our truck died. I could no longer rid myself of junk.

When trash became limited we also said backwards.

After became to ill to care for herself. No longer intimidating me with emotional outbursts saying she would do it eventually.
I just took Control and am doing it all with or with out help. I complete Clearing living space.

I'm trying to forgive her and move on .
But I recieve alot of grief as I wanted to remove the entire hoard to storage unsorted , just removed with organization and a plan for retrieval nearby. I knew the condition of our rental home would result in an eviction.
Looking ahead. That would mean my 3member family of 16 years would be separated split up . And the stuff.

We're still together , the house is as organized as it can be.
I started with the heavy lifting.
Made a plan to clean everyroom. Navigating from the door I take trash away one room completely cleared at a time. Until I reached the other end of the house.
As I started clearing , I called in all favors from well wishers. The people that said if there was anything they can do just ask.
So I mobilized as many as I could.
Had a Chili party the day before the Superbowl.
We like a wrecking crew cleared , painted, and recarpeted almost everyroom.

My wife was now being cared for by her mother and friends that stay with her while I work.

My daughter has a drum set I bribed her friends into helping clear her room. She now has friends overnight every weekend.

So as look back as to how I got to this point.

Id have to say a woman on you tube said .
You must spend time with your hoard. If you know you're going to move , get ready. Spend time with the hoard getting ready. The other piece was finding this site. A place to vent.
My personal malfunction, is I have to be in the mood to clean. And when I discuss cleaning with my wife I allow her to kill my mood. So when I come here , I can vent. I have adhd. I think very fast, not like good or bad , smart or dumb. Just that I know I think about 8 things faster than I can speak. I sometime forget what I'm saying outloud , because my mind has already jumped into other subjects. I wish I didn't have to say I'm adhd.

For relating purposes I wish I could say
What was I saying. WWIS.

No matter how much I try to stay in the here and now. I see the changes coming.
I will need to move.
We will all separate.

So I separated my stuff from their stuff.
Then I sweated their stuff from each others.
As I purged my things and condensed it to the smallest foot print possible, I also sold enough to pay for the storage.
Then my focus turned on their purges.

I would work on who ever was most receptive at the moment. As my wife was extremely upset and continues to accuse me of stealing her things.

I work on my daughters purge.
Most of from my mother, not my mother in law.

I worked on giving back to mother the things my mom wanted her to keep. But daughter doesn't need or attach to.
So focus on my mom.
Gave her three weeks to find other grand kids to gift these unwanted keep sakes.
This purged half of daughters stuff.
Purging clothes and other items by selling it.
She holding only because it's valuable. So I find ways to sell and trade on LETGO.
She earned $500+ and is now down to less than 20 tubs. Non in storage. I helped her organize the tubs for better access and labeling , she can browse the tubs contents on her phone via chromecast on big screen TV. She's happy. I'm happy she did most of the handling herself.

So that left my wife, the emotional Tiger.
The house is cleared and social service are being occurring in home.
Anytime view talked about her things legroom storage the conversations turned into arguments.
I made up my mind I would listen, no matter how heated , I start a conversation it would not move or spin off into other subjects. Or escalate too fast without gaining some movement on the purge.

I would stop by the unit and let get pick things out that value, or were sentimental.
I listen very closely to what she's holding because her mother wanted her to have.

So it went from 90 tubs down to 85.
I had figured I needed her to purge it down to 45 tubs. So it fit in a room along a specific wall 15 tubs in a row. On floor / heavy, in middle valuable. On top light.

I targeted 5 tubs of unsorted papers.
4 tubs of shoes,another clothing. 71 tubs

I then repacked the tubs as valuable or sentimental, and clutter.

I relabled and sorted the items into similar items
What's would find in a room like bedroom items, bathrooms items, decorations, all things were laid in tubs as a single layer , nothing overlapping, and the photographed.

Giving my wife a clear goal.
In the late evening , so if we argue , it's not ruin a whole day. In the late evening on the couch infrontvof the TV , 1 TUB AT a time , for about 1 half hour. 3 minutes per tub as I kept voice notes.
She would sort by verbal means. What she actually needed and what she could let go if I could sell.

I gathered info on the object that mean nothing to me . Estimated a price. And then paid her off.
So of it sold , but I paid her $350 , and her hoard was now down to 60 tubs.
I pulled out many bulk items and brought to front porch, asking her to keep 30 objects to keep in the house, but sell or donate the rest.
She kept 45 things and was now down to 45 tubs.
I just the shelves while she was away at her mother's. Brought the hoard back and did a room remodel and switch to accommodate her as she needs a bigger room on the first floor.

Her tubs can still be seen via on her phone and cast to TV.

So the hoard has been tamed.
It wasn't all her. But we needed to work with her to separate our stuff from hers. To purge and organize our own stuff to individual areas and not in the common areas.

We have a cleaning woman come , sponsored by her health provider. We pay 2/3 .
We divided chores between daughter and I .
Trash , laundry , cutting grass. All things a landlord doesn't want see are under my control.
Mother in law is helping daughter with hygiene and cleaning chores like sweeping , dusting, dishes and mess control.

It was not simple, it took alot of effort,time, and money made it easier. Especially selling some of my valuables to bribe her out of hers in a devious manner. I don't like being that to her .for frivolous purposes. But that's now over.

There are other issues, but now we're able to deal with them without the hoard making it more complicated.

I need a place to vent.
Without making it a blame fest in her face.
Especially her stuff. In her room. I came through with an army of volunteers and put all belongings in the storage unit. I knew it would met with rage. But we are still together as a Family in the end. Eighth grade daughter living with 50yo parents. We will move before high school starts in 3-4 months. And we will ready to move in only a day.

I have most of my things now in storage.
I will only need to move my wife's things , as my daughter has chosen to live with aunt to go to high school I'll only need to load her things and hug her her goodbye. ~sigh~

My wife is going to her mother's and she has a 15 foot wall designated. For her stuff.
She won't need any furniture's.
Her father in law is a licensed registered nurse and is going to Care for her.

I can't afford my rental home, so I will need to move too. I'm thankful to all those whom gave me their time and help. I believe I've lost so much in previous move, I may never recover my individual treasures like once had. But I know now I can keep hoarding out my living space. If I find someone else to grow old with. It will not be an emotional Tiger, nor an angry hoarder.
Weekend Worrier
Posted: 16 March 2017 - 08:53 AM
Hi Pain,

I just want you to know you're not unnoticed or alone.

My mother is a hoarder. It started 6 years ago when her husband died.

I do not live in the same state as her so it is hard for me to keep up with her. I've cleaned out her house twice.

Now it is completely unlivable as she as given up on cleaning up after her two dogs. It's really at a crisis point but I don't want her put in a home or something like that, so I don't call social services.

My own therapist has told me to stop cleaning up her house, but how do I watch my own mother live her life in such filth?

It is heartbreaking to me and I want to find help. But of course she is very resistant to having help cleaning up.

Sending you compassion and strength. I know it is exhausting to deal with. I feel sometimes like I'm the only one in the world who knows this type of sadness. It is nice to remember I'm not.
Posted: 15 January 2017 - 12:21 PM
Hi Pain :)

It is very frustrating to have a plan and no one will go along with it so nothing ever gets done.

Young teenaged girls can be the most difficult to live with.
I know, I was once one of them,
Moody and temperamental. Believe they know it all and you can't teach them anything, because they already know everything.
You are in a very tough spot between the daughter and her mother.
As long as her mother keeps allowing the daughter to be messy, she will be.

I would like you to read "Digging Out".
It's a book for people who have a hoarder in their life.
I learned some very valuable information from that book.
Mainly what I can do and why & how I should do it.

One thing about working with adults is that we need to remember that we can NOT change other people, we can only change ourselves and how we deal with any situations.
If or when an adult decides to change it will be their own decision to do so in their own time.
Knowing this will help to keep you from blaming yourself for things beyond your control.

Great planning you have done to help reduce your housework load.
Reducing the amount of dishes to wash is fantastic!

Around here I am the only one who ever does any of the housework.
The place is falling apart, things are breaking down and he does not want to spend any money to fix them.
The less money spent on home maintenance, the more money he has to continue to buy things.
Things we do not need, will never use and will be destroyed over time in the hoard.

With your wife being so ill and may soon need constant care, this is all very hard for you and your daughter.
Is there any way that you both could talk to a counselor?
At times like this, there are so many emotions that come up.
Would your daughter talk to a kind, sympathetic and understanding counselor?
It would help her sort out her emotions and thoughts.

For now, just keep doing the best you can to take care of yourself.
Hope you have a room all your own where you can rest and escape from the rest of the house.

Tillie, :)

Posted: 15 January 2017 - 07:49 AM
Thanks Tillie

When i look only at myself. Over the years I can get motivated by a plan. But no one wants to help with the plan.
When finally moved my first wife's stuff out into a storage bin. Paid 6 months in advance . She let it expire and lost it all. She was extremely upset with me. I guess being young I think it was her fault her problem.

I'm my second marriage clutter accumulated again.I learned to separate my stuff from her stuff and manage my own clutter. As long as I had a truck I was somewhat in control enough to clear all rooms in 4-5 10hr days especially if I drAnk strong sweet tea. I still feel that's about what I can do. But I no longer have a truck.

I feel like something is going eminatly occur.
I can't afford this rental home on my own pay.
Both my wife and I don't want to live in this home because the landlords property management people do as little as possible. Without giving details we want to move no matter what when our daughter completes 8th grade in May. It's currently January.

Do there is four months left. To downsize before the move.
#1 my daughter.
My mother has given her so many things she won't go of the gifts. Years past their usefulness. When grandmother finds out that that things have been sent out. Either sold , donated , or trashed. She talks under her breath in scathing my sight throws almost nothing away. I have wait until she doesn't notice. We moved three years ago from a house I owned for 16 years. Daughter room was abandoned by my daughter with everything but a few stuffed animals. And all the barbies. Over 200 in poor condition.
She is ready to let go of preteen toys , but not willing to do it herself. Just this last summer her room became so full of trash that she abandoned it sleeping only downstairs.
The mattress had soup all over it and make up and no sheets . It was terrible. Buy any attempt to help her was met with discord. Mother considers all discord a fault of me the father. Because she's not well enough to get up stairs . However when daughter is to face consequences it's drama that goes too far. And mom saves her from the upset dad.

I'm at the crossroad with her. I cleared the spare room out, half the size of her room .it only fits the bed and a TV. I made rule that daughters sleeping room is to be only for sleeping.
Nothing goes into that at all except clean clothes in the closet.
She trashed it like the other rooms .foods ,dirty clothes coveting the floor, trash, pieces of clutter. Again her room is such a mess she's ready to abandon it.

I stood my ground on her room issue. Gave her 72 hours ,first encouraging her. Then being disappointed , and finally yelling at her.
That's when it got to real problem. She said she wanted to die, went upstairs .
Had to go to work 3rd shift. Mom was recovering from a minor surgery. No way I could leave a 13 year overnight home alone. Especially if she's saying thing like I want die.
She came down stairs starting getting the travel case out and wouldn't tell me why shy she was getting the over night bag. As I approached her. She had blood on her lips. I loudly sent her to room without the travel case. Called 911. Had paramedics determine. She was not in any danger.

Her other grandma and mother came before I had to leave for work. Everyone was OK.

Mom took over the daughters room clean up. Nothing has been done since. Not in 5 weeks. I'm clearly at my wits end With them both.

My wife is very Ill . She can't see anymore. Cant barely walk. She still works as a case manager. Thing is she knows she's nearly unable to work.
Her plan is go to her mother's for 24hr care.
She's stated she's filing for divorce this year when her tax check comes. Filing also for disability.

I'm OK with all this. It's disappointing but considering everything else if she wants to go , I will help her rather stand in her way or be an obstacle in her way.

However I feel I will loose my daughter. Basically because I've been the only one to follow through with discipline , my daughter believes I'm an asshole. Well I admit I can be. However I try my best not to be to a child, it's when she doesn't meet clear expectations passes deadlines on a tidy room. And then screams and yells at me. When give her an adult response . Mom usually let's her off the hook.
So looking ahead I believe that even after her moms passing she will choose to live with other relatives. I don't talk about cause I don't want to put the idea in her head.

I left out the part where cleared the 1st abandoned room filled with trash. Made it a common room , she's allowed to keep all her stuff in there , but I keep the clutter from piling up. And the trash out.
Again it's not so bad , I did pass a child service investigation. No removal. I don't drink or smoke pot.

I don't have friends over very much due to my wife's stuff cluttering the downstairs. It's embarrassing to me. I very few friends , and non away from work.

When do try to get the house cleaned up. Its a total drama with wife. She knows she's the one whose the mess maker downstairs in the common areas but doesn't care. When we moved from the house owned she made me leave the portable dishwasher behind. Promising that wife and daughter would do the dishes as they were used. It was only an intention. I get no help with keeping g the kitchen equipment clean. But wow do make major mess. I'm not talking a few crumbs that can be swept off counter or with broom and dust pan . They spill milk in large amounts and just leave it. If I don't clean the microwave it's OMG on weekly basis.I find the drinking glasses filled with mold and just throw them out. Only styrofoam now.
Either I do it all or it's neglected.
I want to keep up with it , but to be truthful to myself I don't keep up with the moldy dishes. So what to do?

I feel like this will all resolve in a few months but won't be the way I want it too.

My current plan of action is to keep the kitchen squeaky clean and most of the dishes packed into two categories. Mine and for my daughter someday in the future.
I keep packing non essential equipment away so it's harder and harder for them to make messes I can't keep up with.
Only plastic forks and spoons.
Only Pyrex pie plates I can wash
Only 1 pot and 1pan

I'm resolved to keep my mouth shut from now on and keep the house clean as example to my daughter .
I guess as monkey see monkey do.

Each room has a number. There are 12 rooms if I include 1 porch and 2 bathrooms. There are also 6 closets crammed and disorganized .
I've seen worse. MUCH WORSE. But in now way could have an occasional friend over and feel comfortable. I could get it gathered up and restacked into a spare room if I wanted to have an extended family dinner.

Please leave a comment if you read this. And I invite you to offer constructive criticism.
It helps me to know I'm not all alone. Although I could use some help. I know I'll be doing it all myself. Tillie thank you for commenting .
Posted: 14 January 2017 - 04:34 PM
Hello :)

You are wrong about only posting to yourself,
many people read here but do not reply, for a variety of reasons. ;)

My Blu-ray player also plays Youtube videos on the big TV and I also enjoy watching the various decluttering, organizing and down sizing videos on the big screen.

You are correct that too many people are only one injury or illness away from homelessness and losing everything they own.

My big worry is what he will leave behind for me to have to sort out and dispose of when he dies.
Money will be tight and it is costly to hire help and rent dumpsters.

My belongings are rather minimal, everything would fit nicely into the smallest storage unit,
I live with a person who has amassed a huge hoard of everything.

At some point in everybody's life they should consider what they will be leaving behind when they die.
How much of a burden will it be to handle their estate.

WAY TO GO! Pain for your 50% downsizing!
Good luck with your future plans. :)

Posted: 14 January 2017 - 03:50 PM
I know I'm posting to myself.

I recently got a chromecast , where YouTube would play in playlists on the main 60" TV in the living room. One Saturday morning I had a running playlist of "hoarder help" .

I learned something's that have been helpful.

Especially for those you ate one accident away from losing everything. Basically if I were I. Car accident and unable to work I lose my rental home.

I'm sure any of you reading this May see themselves in a scenario where they have no income and lose their dwelling.

When this happens , someone else will come in and clear your stuff. This can be traumatic to some . Losing not only valuable passions by memories too..

So it needs to able to fit in a SAM OR PORTABLE storage . This means purging enough to fit in it.
Many people reach an age where the must move into a retirement apartment. They must downsize. The key is spending enough time in advance to go through it all. If you have 12 months or more then don't wait. Start purging duplicates either by selling or donating.
Get a large trunk with wheels on it that be labeled "keep my memories" . So if everything is purged as trash they might get the trunk to you. If you keep the contact info on it.

For me I know I have to spend time purging or eventually there won't be enough time to purge it the way I want. I've downsized 50% so far . But no way to fit it in an apartment when my wife passes.

I just keep separating the stuff. My stuff, wife's stuff, daughters stuff. I go through it . I then place it in a cleared area . If it's their stuff I leave out where they can purge it. It's so much better to let them purge their own stuff or at least reduce its foot print..
Again I spend time with it and try not make it a discussion.
Posted: 14 January 2017 - 03:24 PM
I have trouble keeping everything perfectly organized. Sometimes I stop altogether. After awhile I get tired of looking at it and clear a whole room and reset it .

I have a wife and daughter. After a mini stroke TIA my wife stopped cleaning anything at all. When I would try to clean the bedroom I would get snapped and and an argument would almost always happen.

I no longer share the bedroom with her. She isn't near death , but has had cancer for long time and her health problems continues to accumulate.

My daughter won't clean up after herself. No amount of grounding, or consequences matter . She simply won't clean up after herself unless her mother is mad as hell .

I can keep up on most of it, but I'm not getting it done. I know what I'm like from a previous marriage and before I had children. So I know I am a stack and restacker. There's not enough purge. I through out most of my stuff when it's useless. However they will just let accumulate until there's only a path and then they abandon the area once the path fills in .
I have developed skill that I feel empowered to clear any room of all its contents. Clean the floors , windows and walls, reset the furniture. Making any room functional again. BUT I have to wait until it is abandoned as a living space.

Perspective is I was investigated by children services. I passed a home inspection , but I didn't let them in for 5 days as I cleared all the common areas , piling most of the unpurged items into rooms that would not be inspected. Slowly over a months time I cleared those rooms back into functional living spaces.

It's like I'm the enemy in my own home. I do the dishes, clean the toilets, wash the clothes, and put things away. After awhile it's like I open a door and it's a hoarder room filled with everything trash, clothes, cups,foods,knickknacks, and clutter.
No amout of discussion or pleading matters. I've accepted I'm the only one that will make the areas functional. I admit I'm not perfect I can point the finger at myself too. What I need is a support group. A place where I can rant about them anonymously. Make plans a get approve or just a thumbs up .
I don't hate them . I don't hate myself. I am dissapointed in my spouse. I believe she has been malignant with cancer for 3 years and my understanding is she won't be with us three years from now. I fear my daughter will choose to live with others , due to me being upset with their lack of cleanliness . It's been a constant strain and source of arguments.
I find dead mice , and get upset. Finding food in places it shouldn't have been. I won't allow a cat anymore because they won't care for the litter box or feed it regularly. So I lost the mice eater, but now I'm fighting a battle with mice.
I just keep buying bait, but my wife and daughter keep feeding them elsewhere with food . They hide it from me. If I search their drawers its an invasion of their privacy.

So I just do it anyway. I don't hate them , but let me know they hate me when I go in their spaces and eliminate mouse food sources.

Smile , I'm smiling because I got that off my chest without expressing it at them.
Today I will clear the kitchen , dinning room, and living room and purge and clean the bathrooms.
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