Mamahoards . . . . .

I'm hoping that you're still out there.

Your family sounds like it parallels mine. I'm in a career, I think that I live much closer to mom and dad than you do, I'm about a mile away.

We just had the pastor over on Tuesday, my mom sat down with my dad and myself. My mom was scared to death of telling my dad that on top of the fact that half off the rooms were 100% inaccessible and the other half just had narrow entries and you can't even sit down in them, that someone tipped off the fire inspectors and they came over and gave them 5 citations.

My dad is much less passive than yours, he kinda figures that if he yells at my mom that things will be fixed, but he's a victim in this, he has absolutely no control over what comes into the house, or how it's managed, etc, he just retired, and is spending all sorts of time there, and it's stressing their marriage.

Sorry, typed in your name on that last reply instead of mine....Hope you still read it!

Here is what the show is always looking for:
1) Crisis - what is the crisis situation if the hoarder does not get their home cleaned up. If there isn't any, then they probably won't be interested. It can be anything from the City or County being involved and threatening legal action or a spouse that is going to leave the hoarder, really not just saying it.

2) Visual - It needs to be an impressive hoarding situation, not just mild to moderate.

3) Something different - if you have seen the first few seasons or even several episodes you know that many of the hoards tend to blend together. If your mothers case has anything out of the norm, that would obviously peak their interest a bit as well.

4)Involvement - They would need the hoarder and most of the family members involved in the show. They would need to all tell their part of the story from beginning to end and how it is affecting everyones lives.

That is pretty much it. If you think you guys qualify, you have nothing to lose by submitting the story. What is the worst that could happen? They say no and you are back to where you are now.

Cory,
She did put up a fight. Each phone call is usually 1-2 hours of prepping my father on what to say, then having the intervention so to speak.

Great idea about having her think she decided to cut down.

I was going to ask how bad a home needs to be before you can help and put it on TV. I know my mom would make a very interesting show, but I don't think she would agree.

What makes someone qualify to be on the show?

Thank you!

Mamahoards,
Definitely no need to thank me. I love helping people with this issue!
Yes, I think slowing it down will help. But, maybe trick her into it. Have your father ask her if doing this every day is just too much for her in a way that she says yes without saying, any time is too much. That way he can reply, ok how about we compromise and do it once a week, or once every 4 days, whatever you decide. She will feel like she won the battle, even though it was the plan all along. Most hoarders have serious control issues so if you learn ways to work around that while still getting what you want, it will help all of you. I think the fact that she sat there and let him go through a box is great. She didn't put up any fight at all?
In regards to her word hoarding, this is also a common finding as they are so scattered inside their own heads that they feel like getting it out of their head and on papaer the idea or thought will not be forgotten when in reality it is just now lost in a mountain of other thoughts and great ideas! Anyway, keep it up and please keep us updated on her responses to your techniques. We can all learn from each persons stories!

Cory...I am so very much appreciative of your kind and concrete response...you have helped me validate that we are on the right track.

Yesteray my dad said "sweetie...it's time to go through another box, but I didn't know he woke her up because it was around 11am...he didn't know she was asleep, he thought she was just laying there. But I am instructing my dad to make sure that mom has had breakfast, and that when he sees her have that "clipping newspaper" energy, that that is a good time to go through a box.

I think my mom is a word hoarder, which I just read about. She sits on the toilet at least 2 hours a day, reading every word in the paper, and then doing a ritual of clipping and saving.

She also is obsessed with writing EVERYTHING DOWN. She had so many post it notes, that you couldn't even see your face in the mirror.

Her latest thing is to take her calendar and she is filling up the back of them so it looks like a phone book. My dad skyped me yesterday and showed me. She always says she is too busy to declutter because she has too much paperwork to do...but we know her "paperwork" is just her rituals.

Anyway...yesterday she refused to go through a box because she was still upset from the day before that I told you about.

She told my dad and I yesterday that we were "NUTS" and cruel. She said "I hope you both are happy...you will get your clean home, but you are killing my spirit"

I told my dad to not push it anymore (yesterday) and to start fresh today when she has energy.

I am going to share with him what you said.

It seems like my mom gets more irritable when I am on the other line...she feels bad.

So...I am going to see if my dad can handle going through a box on his own today with her.

I am instructing him to use encouraging words as you say about getting a family gathering because my mom dreams of that.

I am also reminding my dad to ask her what she is feeling...if she gets stuck on an item.

And...to ask her "what is the worst thing that can happen if you decide this item doesn't have a home here and leaves"

I will also take your advice and slow down the everyday to once every few days to week.

Thank you so much. If you have any feedback with my new post, please share.

Bless you!

MamaHoards,

I think the way your are handling this is excellent. Listen, we all know that reluctant hoarders will use everything they can to resist peoples involvement and force them to clean their home. But, in this case it is your fathers home too. The fact that you didn't become upset yourself is the key. It is, depsite their appearance, very hard for hoarders to justify being upset with loved ones trying to help when they are being noting but loving and supportive. The way you were encouraging her despite her adolesent behavior was perfect. Also, since this was ther first effort at this method of your father going through her box and you still congratulated her on letting go of two things was great. It is all about baby steps and letting the hoarder see that in fact there are things in the home that they can let go of. If you multiply those 2 things times every box in the house, it is still a lot of stuff that she may let go of. And, you may just find that once she realizes that those things weren't really needed, it may in some slight way motivate her the next time. Your mother sounds very resistant, narcisitic and manipulative, the most common characteristics of a hoarder so we are never surprised by that. It is an excellent idea to get your father in counseling to help him cope with the rollercoaster of emotions he is living with. Is there any motivational factors that will help a little bit? Are there any grandkids that you or your sibilngs have that you refuse to allow in her house? Can you motivate her by telling her how nice it would be to have a large family gathering at the dinner table like Christmas or Thanksgiving? Just remember a hoarders anger about letting things go is really the fear which is mostly based on the anxiety involved and not the true value of the item itself. I would set up a routine for her, so once every few days or even once a week in the beginning she knows there is a set time that he will be going through another box. Maybe once a week in the beginning will be enough time for her to calm down and prepare herself for another challenging moment. Otherwise, this may cause an even bigger strain on their relationship. In the end you father is going to have to do what he has to do to live HIS life. This isn't just about her and she will have to accept that. Don't let her threats of "if you guys do this to me, I will have health problems". That is just the manipulations they use to try to get you to stop the process. I am sure you father living in that environment is causing him a lot of true problems as well, but he doesn't throw them all in her face trying to guilt her into it. So, recap...scheduled cleaning times, small project at a time, motivation and stay determined. Maybe have our father also set a rule that for any one item that comes home, two existing items have to go. It will prevent the problem from growing any further. Let's hope that over a couple months she will start participating more and resisting less.Again, you are doing great!

Can't take the credit... all goes back to Cory for having such a heart for all who suffer through this... those with the disorder and their friends and family. He does so much work to help us all in what little time he has...
Plus, I found that helping others has helped my walk in this so much. I am no expert... just a little further in the process.

Thank you so much linda and Darci...this is wonderful that we can come here to speak to one another.

Hello Cory,
Thank you for your response. My mom has kaiser which would only charge $25.00 for a counseling session, and she won't go to that, so i doubt she would accept your help. Do you have counselors that go to homes? If so, what is the cost. They don't have much at all to spend.

I have instructed my dad to pull out one box a day and go through it when my mom has energy, so today, my dad starts on one of the boxes (while I am on the phone) in the living room. My mom says "I am done with this conversation, good-bye'...

so i said "dad, please put mom on speaker. I said..."Mom, if you choose to walk away, then dad will have no choice but to go through things on his own and keep only those things that you've used within the past year, or that he thinks has value'. So, if you choose to walk away, just realize that.

So, she got so upset at us and said "if my blood pressure goes up today, it's all your fault..i have bills to pay and don't have time for this. I have to do things in my own time and my own way" so I said 'mom i love you and i am doing the best I can to help you and daddy get the clean home I know you want'...so i proceeded to ask my dad to go back to the box for us to start going through over the phone together. My mom was walking back and forth grubbling here and there and as mad as a hornet.

My dad pulls out the first item from the box...old pillow cases. So, me, as the coach (by the way my mom told me not to say coach, but that she would allow me to be her cheerleader) said "Mom do you want to keep, trash, donate, or not sure those pillow cases...so of course she wants to keep them and she rips them out of my dads hands and puts them in her already cluttered room.

Next item, an old cassette holder. We ask her the same questions, and she wants to keep it.

To make a long story short, she only allowed dad to throw away two things from the box today, but I praised her anyway for the progress and she stomped off angrily stating "may the bad little girl go now"...very sarcastic.

I let her know that this will be an everyday occurrence until my dad has clutter free zones.

i told her also that the whole family is behind this...and I am scheduling my dad for a counseling appt at kaiser.

As always...feedback so appreciated.

Mamahoards, can you contact me? I would like to talk to you about your situation and see how I can help your family.

Cory Chalmers
Steri-Clean
(888) 577-7206 Ext. 111

Hello again, Mamahoards. I was really surprised to find that there are several Christian therapists who take insurance. How I found them was by going to a few local churches and asking them if they knew of any faith based therapists. Not to endorse any one denomination but I found that the smaller Lutheran churches were generally the ones to have that info. Also, check the phone book and look for the sign of the fish in their ads. They are out there... Keep coming to these boards whenever you get discouraged. We can all help eachother!

I know someone who has been hoarding for at least 10 years - he will let me go thru stuff at his house, but he will never do it while he is at home - he is a loner & has never married. He lives 150 miles from me, so I can't help him that much but I have a couple of times. I try to be careful what I say to him, but nothing helps. I see potential in his house - all he seems to feel is failure & no potential. I wish you luck with your mom--my "someone" wont even do 5 minutes a day. majority is just not using a garbage bag. extremely frustrating!

Thank you for your response...bless you!
I will try to word things like that. Tonight my dad went and got some containers. One he will label trash, one donate, one keep and one not sure. He is going to ask her to just go through one box with him today. She already said "I have too much to do and I will do it when I am ready, don't pressure me". So please say a prayer...it's tough as you know!
They have kaiser so trying to find a christian therapist may be a challenge...but you brought up some great points...thank you so much!

I can tell you from experience that it is very difficult to work with someone who is in denial. While I am not a professional, I can tell you from experience that you can start with "icebreaker" questions. "Mom, I know you love Dad and want the best for him. Do you think it is fair that he can't __________". Fill in the blank with "have family over" or "walk safely" or ...... Be very careful to not load judgement into your question. A question like "Do you realize that you are imprisoning Dad in his own home" really says "YOU are imprisoning Dad in his own home." Start questions with an affirmation of love, respect, understanding, etc. The other approach (if she is not open to counseling) is to let her know that your Dad needs counseling for depression and that you can be available to help them find a faith based therapist who takes insurance and that you will drive them to the sessions. If you tell her that she needs help (which we know she does), her defenses will go straight up! She may not be willing to help herself, but may be willing to help your Dad. Let her know that you fear that your Dad won't really open up to the therapist and that she would really be the best one to go in with him to help him get to the heart of the matter. Try to make sure you find a faith based therapist that won't attempt to infuse his/her own belief system into the situation. Very dangerous to have that happen if you have someone, like your mother, who is deeply rooted in the concept of the rapture. I have had New Age therapists actually try to tell me that Christianity is a judgemental belief system and the reason why I had psychological problems. Having a therapist license doesn't make you the best therapist. If you get a therapist who is not a seasoned faith based therapist, they may thwart your total effort. A seasoned faith based therapist will know how to approach someone who is entrenched in the anticipation of the raputre. My heart goes out to you. Your parents are blessed to have you care about them so much!

Thank you so much for allowing me to share.
I am a registered nurse.

My mom began hoarding years after my sister divorced a man who molested girls in our old church...my sister being the biggest victim.

To make it worse, this man had sexual relations with my other sister too.

My mom i know is hurting, but she doesn't think it's that bad and she is not able to get rid of things.

I have read the book buried in treasures and we have not thrown anything away, but now my dad has reached his limits.

My mom was hoarding in his room (they have separate bedrooms) and she began cluttering in the bath tubs at their new home, the kitchen table and couch.

I get so frustrated that we are supposed to tiptoe around the hoarder, when my dad is in his 70's, and so sick of it. He wants to have family over, but she won't allow him....and he is too embarrassed with the way it is.

My mom is very stubborn and my dad has always made peace by not speaking out too much.

But I am now instructing my dad to reclaim his space. He has the right to have his bedroom free of clutter, a couch to sit on, a table to eat on, a tub to bathe in, and a guest room to have his family over.

My mom has been saying for the past 10 years "I will get to it" and she doesn't.

The bathroom looks like a hamster cage. She is a word hoarder. She has to collect all newspapers re child molesters "in case someone needs this info someday" regardless of me telling her that if anyone wants the info, they can just look online.

She is a neat hoarder though...she is very particular about stacking everything, so it's not like the ones you see in TV.

She has a storage shed and her bedroom is stacked to the ceiling almost with boxes that she says she is not emotionally ready to get rid of.

She wants to be raptured by the Lord she says, and tries to change the world by preaching the gospel.

I think she is depressed and shows signs of bipolar, but she refuses to get help.

So, please tell me what you all think...but I think it's time my dad get a life.

I am the coach and instructing my dad to insist mom gets counseling and start reading the buried in treasure book together.

I have also instructed my dad to start going through one box per day...that's it...and have a pile of trash, keep, or donate.

I said "then if mom refuses all of it, tell her that you have no choice but to throw it out".

I know I've read that it makes the hoarder worse if you throw it out, but my poor dad can't leave her...he loves her to death...but wants a cleaner home.

Thank you so much. I would appreciate feedback.