I found this whole thread really thoughtful and helpful. Thank you!

I knew personally how hard it is for me to make the decision to get rid of something, but I hadn't really thought about how that indecisiveness actually is a major contributor to the hoarding. (I hope that distinction makes sense.) I can see how it's played out in me keeping things because I am terrified of making the wrong decision, so it's much easier to just put an item back in the box.

Karl,

This may be the discussion that should have evolved from the original post.

I am really confused in trying to think about your suggestion and issues presented by other posters here.

There are many posts/threads about hoarding and non-hoarding family members. A non-hoarding family member wants a hoarding family member to change. They have tried "everything" up to and including ultimatums to make the hoarding person change. The hoarding person won't change. The non-hoarding person separates; in great emotional distress.

I guess this could be making your point that ultimatums don't work, but it doesn't seem to be very supportive of the concept that other approaches do. Unless "everything" in the posts on this site is missing something.

A theory conflict over communication techniques?
An idea that there must be some communication technique that will achieve a desired result opposed to the idea that there is no communication technique that will achieve a desired result?

Further thoughts?

Sofia,

There are a couple of other things I wanted to pull together. Here is an article on hoarding:

http://chealth.canoe.ca/channel_section_details.asp?text_id=4748&channel_id=11&relation_id=101499

As you read, notice the characteristic of indecision. That's what I want to mention below.

Switching for a moment to a book. I do not have this in front of me, just working with a "take away impression". We do both ourselves and another person an injustice when we label them a hoarder. They are a person with a combination of behaviors, just as we are. In some people gathering behaviors get out of balance and become hoarding behaviors and can have significant impacts on those around them. And I think that's what you are experiencing with your husband.

Bringing things together in a possible scenario. Your post something like " strange.. when choices are so clear ".

Perhaps an alternative: "Hoarding characteristics in my husband are driving him to decisions I would not make (or understand) BECAUSE choices are so clear".

Children, big commitment, like lady, big challenge but unable to decide, STALL STALL STALL to maintain status quo.

In regard to communication,

See my Feb 05 post in
How to help a hoarder
my s*s is a hoarder
started by Sad but Tidy.

To evaluate, you could check your library for the book. I think I'm seeing some excerpts coming up on google books.

If you want to get a copy (2nd ed) you can look through Half.com; Abebooks; Amazon; and eBay listings.

Again, been awhile since I looked at this one so I can't discuss it much, but if you want a biblical based model for couple communication, check out "Love and Respect" by Emerson Eggerichs (sp).

Here is an example of the type of questions one might ask about something when trying to decide about keeping it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bisOsqaYeRk

and in case the link doesn't work properly

Youtube
clutterdiet
20 questions to ask about keeping anything

Sofia,

I have just been dropping some things in here that I think might be germane considerations in your mental struggle.

There are some other things as I can organize my thoughts or find some references I want.

If it's too much or inappropriate, please say so and I'll stop.

From SusanL in another thread.
Dr Robin Zasio has a hoarding related book and I'd had a question about online access to two lists in her book.
10 worst things to say to hoarder, 10 best things to say to hoarder.

Dr. Zasio's lists in this link:

http://life.gaiam.com/tags/dr-robin-zasio

Mostly: be non-judgmental, but it's ok to ask for some clutter free areas for oneself, as Tillie insists on. So you can't change another person, but you can insist that there be no clutter in, say, the kitchen and bathroom.

We won't talk about how I know a hoarder might do this :), but I consider the second paragraph a "classic" example of a way in which a hoarder might attempt to escape a VERY difficult challenge. (Avoid issue and redirect by laying guilt on the non-hoarder.)

The first paragraph is a nice "simple dodge".

(Housemate could give lessons!)

Just offering for "vision" perspectives.

An excerpt from a daily chat post:

Last night, my housemate and I both went to a board games event. In addition to playing, she also bought several new games for her collection. I have some concerns over her acquiring more stuff, but not enough information to provide any useful criticism. Last week when I asked why she had bought another Yahtzee game when she already had two, she said that she was planning to use some of her games as gifts.

Not only is the home cluttered, but her car is, too. The back seat is completely packed, and just using the front passenger seat often involves rearranging stuff first. After we got home last night, I suggested that perhaps both of us could work on decluttering the car -- it seems to me that four obvious categories are trash, recyclables, games, and other (non-game keepers). She thought that sounded like a good idea. Today when I re-suggested it, she said that I should deal with the lease as a higher priority.

Hi Dave,

I read your account and it sounds exactly like my husband as he talks about his things. The weird part is that his 1 bedroom was piled to the ceiling and he has actually made a lot of dumpster runs and even let me throw things out once he sorted through them. There is some 'churning' - he has 2 storage units which are mostly full, however we have taken things out of those as well. The best method has been to give my sister things - she generally needs them and can't afford a lot of even necessities. Anyway, we can actually walk around on the floor of his apartment now without tripping on things. Even though we're maintaining 2 spaces - his apartment and my condo - and he's made such progress since the ultimatum (divorce), I feel bad about actually executing it. I love him and want to be with him and he's shown that he's willing to change but he hasn't taken the final step of actually getting rid of the apartment. Like you, he refuses therapy so most if any type of therapy is me nagging him. Believe me, I don't like nagging him any more than he likes hearing me nag him. I just feel very conflicted about what I should do - not that I'm asking for advice, just being able to vent to others who won't judge him is nice to do. Thanks for having the forum!

Thanks! I appreciate the honesty though. It's better to have honesty than to paint things as better than they are. Thank you for your kindness!

Hi Sofia,

In the welcome to the new board section, there is a thread called New, started by Courtney. (Currently 3 threads down.) Take a look at that for a similar situation.

Our finances went to 2 places for around 15 years. It has messed up our finances a lot. I was barely able to motivate myself to start changes with the "ultimatum". If that has not done it with your husband, I would guess your choices are take the situation as is or move on. I'm sorry I can't offer you a happier report.

My husband is a hoarder and I find it really difficult to talk to him. Long story short, he still has his apartment after 3 years of marriage. It's draining our finances. To his credit he's done a lot to clean up and he actually got rid of most of it, however he's having a difficult time with the last bit. I think for him it means a loss of freedom and I'm at a loss of how to make him see that he's not giving up freedom and his only obstacle to his future (career, home, etc.) is himself. He says he wants children but always makes cleaning the apartment a pre-requisite for having them. Just feels so unfair as I would like to have a future with children but the apartment is always the condition to having them. I had no idea what to do so I set a deadline for him to clean up or I'd have to divorce him. He missed the first deadline so I sent him back to the apartment to live instead of with me. He now says he thinks he will miss the second deadline. He's really sweet and kind and I hate doing it, but we just can't go on like this. He says he loves me and wants a future together but it seems that the things mean more to him. I would like to understand, but it just seems so hard when the choices are so clear. I thought some other hoarders might be able to offer insight as to ways of helping him...or if the better choice is just to let go and let him be with the things that he loves the most. Thanks for any insight!

Hello Eloise,

Could you try to express what you were saying a little more clearly? I'm not sure I understand what you want to say.

Maybe it is for the show but I feel Hoarders need some
Tough love. They DON'T have control. It is beyond that.