HUGS Dianne. At first I read the horse teacher as mean, although are you saying it was ok how he was to you? Sounds pretty touch and go situations to try with the horses. I rode horses as a child, although not your experience leve....just summer camp and whenever family went to the stables. Sometimess they would give such beginner horses, that to make sure I did not get one.....exaggerated about how often I had rode. I did not want to be walking, trotting and at best getting up to a canter....found that boring :( Wanted to galloping throught he fields :)

I got a wild horse named "Frisky" who gunned it for the highway! I had beenn taught that when a horwse was not listening and going a way we did not want, you must pull their head back to stop them and also so they cannot see to keep going forward. As well, as you know it makes them go in a circle... Well this horse was so wild that even thought it would go into a circle for awhile an I could handle it's speed and even knew what to do....it was not ready to be rode yet as it kept trying to go for the highway. Actually became a bit of a scary experience. Needless to say, I returned that horse and got another one. It had not been broken in and while I had experience, am thinking it was not ready to be ridden by anyone other than someone who breaks horses in.

As far as core strength goes, it can be very subltle movements and holdings(the absolute most beginner appearing stretches and yoga pre-postures) that are responsible to build it actually. That is how the core strength I had at that time had been built and I had health issues, so one would think beuilding a core would have been impossible...not so with the right teacher/patience and effort.

Core strength is number one stepping block for all yoga postures. As far as teachers go, we learn from all of our best teachers I find...which do include the ones we would not go back to or put our trust in as well.

Oh Dianne, What a terrible story to hear.... You were wise to withdraw your trust and I am happy again, you are with us today. There are postures that require core strength as well as that connection with the breath which can hold the body, as well......in order to do postures as such. He should not have left you to get out on your own and instead helped teach you how to bring your body into it, step by step over time and of course out.

Core strenght is one of the most important things to develop in yoga and does not take fancy complicated postures. Rather the very subtle simple movements with holding. Years ago in one of the yoga classes I atteneded, we had an olympic athlete who could not hold the postures and his body started shaking. We are talking a beginneer posture in which you develop your core strength that might not even look like yoga, although requires the holding.

There are many ways to practice yoga that do not involve those complicated postures and in fact if that is all a person thinks yoga is or that those postures are needed to have a real practice, they are very mistaken.

HUGS again....

My spirituality hides when I am stressed, anxious, worrying. So today I am taking deep breaths, allowing myself to be calm and appreciate my life just as it is today.

Geneva:

-->I am a me minister. I am always afraid of throwing out something the people may need.

Oh my gosh! Yes, that thought is constantly in my mind..."What if someone will need this?!" And to be honest, I don't know what the answer is all the time. I just know that me storing so much stuff is actually keeping me from being more available to people who need me.

I wonder if me donating items keeps them in circulation, kind of keeps the generosity flowing, so to speak. If someone is in need they will more readily have access to those same non-profit organizations, and I will be more freed up to be of service instead of trapped in my possessions.

Roxie, this is quite profound--> "I realize my goals have changed from future planning to trying to get what I have right now clean and organized so my son will not have to have a huge burden to face when I pass. I can hope!"

My mother died quite young, which means that at anytime I, too, could, too. I guess we all have numbered days, don't we? Sorting through her prized possessions was therapeutic, but cleaning trash and unknown stuff away would not have been. I don't want anyone to have to trudge through my mess and dirt. Lovingly looking at valued pictures, yes. Having to sort through tons of misc. papers stacked to the hilt on my desk, no.

I am a me minister. I am always afraid of throughing out something the people may need.

"Instead of thinking of getting rid of some of my clutter as giving up dreams, I might be better off thinking of it as embracing my humanness."

Thank you, LR, for such a powerful post...it brought tears to my eyes. I am going through one of my store rooms and ge so stuck on the past projects....this helps so very much.

LR, THANKS FOR EXPRESSING THIS SO ELOQUENTLY!!!!!!
It is exactly what I was thinking when I fell in the hoard room today. All these unfinished projects, the dreams to create new ways to do things with all my tools and metal things, and craft crap. Your post inspired me and touched my heart to be more accepting of being a human among humans. There is some comfort in having all the possibilities around me, until I fell and landed on some of them.
LR hope you are having a good day, you sure did make mine more realistic, thanks so much.

A significant amount of my clutter is connected with my unfinished projects or is connected to past or future goals/dreams/plans. Some of us here on the message board have discussed how difficult it is to give up on a goal or a dream. One thing I've come to realize is that taken individually, many of my goals/plans/dreams could (in theory) be fulfilled; however, collectively they cannot all be fulfilled. In other words, it is humanly impossible for me to do all the things my imagination wants to do. I am not superhuman. Sometimes, without realizing it, I am trying to "play God." Without realizing it, I have in the past convinced myself that I can do what no one person alone could possibly do. Instead of thinking of getting rid of some of my clutter as giving up dreams, I might be better off thinking of it as embracing my humanness. I might think of getting rid of some of my things as an outward sign that I am inwardly willing to stop trying to play God. Dreams, goals, and plans are wonderful, but if left to run amuck, they can actually stand in the way of completing worthwhile goals. I will do well today to remember that while my Higher Power can help me accomplish many things, I myself am not some all-powerful God. I do well to seek help and guidance from a power greater than myself. When it comes to the great quantity of goals/plans/dreams I have put in my own head, I do well to turn those over to God and to live happily and joyfully within the limitations of my humanness.

Reading everyone's post tonight on the Sunday chat line, the words from my morning meditation kept ringing through my thoughts and I want to share them with you all.

So often we get frustrated that we are not getting things cleaned up quickly enough. We want to work faster and get it done sooner.

Here are thoughts from Anne Wilson Schaef's devotional Native Wisdom for White Minds, page 33.

"Easy, easy---just go easy and you'll finish.
Does this mean that it's okay to be lazy? Does this mean we don't have to work? Does it mean to stop the things we are doing? Maybe. Maybe not.
We have become so work addicted in Western culture, we find it incomprehensible that we will actually finish if we go easy.
A group of us have bought an old hot springs hotel in Montana. We see ourselves as temporary custodians of a sacred healing place. When we bought it, the buildings were almost feeling the bulldozers blade. At first we were overwhelmed with what needed to be done. Then we decided to move slowly, to only do as much as we were able, one step at a time, sanely. This year, at the owner's meeting, we were astounded by how much had been accomplished, and we could scarcely believe it had been done in only three years.
WHEN I GO EASY, I GET MORE DONE."

It seems illogical, but it is true.
My prayer for anyone reading this today is that you will find your rhythm in working through your plan. You will conquer this.
As Aesop said, "Slow and steady wins the race."

To every thing there is a season,
and a time to every purpose under the heaven:
a time to be born, and a time to die;
a time to plant, and a time to pluck up that which is planted;
a time to kill, and a time to heal;
a time to break down, and a time to build up;
a time to weep, and a time to laugh;
a time to mourn, and a time to dance;
a time to cast away stones, and a time to gather stones together;
a time to embrace, and a time to refrain from embracing;
a time to get, and a time to lose;
a time to keep, and a time to cast away;
a time to rend, and a time to sew;
a time to keep silence, and a time to speak;
a time to love, and a time to hate;
a time of war, and a time of peace.

Step 1: I am powerless over hoarding and my life has become unmanageable.
This is so true for me. Seems as if someone else inhabits my body when I was at a garage sale or thrift store, want to buy every bargain I see. Logic goes out the window. My stuff just kept accumulating, could not have anyone in here, no longer able to deal with stuff. When I found this site and Cory said I had to stay out of thrift stores, it was like telling an alcoholic they could no long drink, if they wanted to get into recovery. Withdrawal from shopping was painful.
Just a few thoughts on my shopping addiction and accumulating.

What I suggest is that you start a new thread
"The 12 Steps Of Hoarding".
Start writing the steps down, tweek them to fit.
Discuss this together on the thread, vote as to how the steps and rules should read.
Use the thread to discuss topics.
Find a time where you can all get together in the chatroom.
Post times & dates for chat meetings.
Remember that when the last person signs out of chat, all postings dissapear, forever. A safe place.
There are enough of you who are interested so I believe you should "Go For It!" :)

I would love to be part of working the 12-steps. I can see how they would be very helpful.

Currently my slogans for the day are "First Things First"
And "Easy Does It."

Wonderful idea. Would love to be included with this if a new chat or place is being used for this purpose. Thanks!

Diane and Dianne,
I think that is a great idea!
I have some other materials from Al-Anon that have helped me live one day at a time. I used to have "Just for Today" posted on my bathroom mirror. And the Serenity Prayer (the long version) has helped me through more than one crisis.

after reading past few days again, was wondering if anyone would like to start a new thread and go through the 12 steps for hoarding, I think we could learn alot from each other. Please let me know what you think about it

Sometimes I Google the Verse for the Day. This was listed for yesterday, but it is just what I need to hear at the end of a week when I did not get as much accomplished as I had planned. Maybe someone else out there needs to hear it too.

2 Corinthians 4: 16-18
Therefore we do not lose heart. Though outwardly we are wasting away, yet inwardly we are being renewed day by day. For our light and momentary troubles are achieving for us an eternal glory that far outweighs them all. So we fix our eyes not on what is seen, but on what is unseen. For what is seen is temporary, but what is unseen is eternal.

I relate a lot to what you said, diane. I'll do all kinds of things if it's for someone else. I think that years ago, at a subconscious level, I felt that spending time cleaning just for me was a selfish use of time. (Mind you that I thought that at a subconscious level, not necessarily consciously.) I felt I "should" be using my time (a disproportionate amount of my time) helping this person or that, doing job-related work, working toward this noble cause or that noble cause, etc. Fortunately, I now view "selfishness" in a different manner. A lot of the things that I once labeled as selfish are simply things that "typical" people automatically do for themselves. I've had to revisit my outlook on the word "selfish."

On another topic, I was thinking earlier today that I have a lot of willpower in certain areas of my life. By now, though, I have certainly proved to myself that on my own, I am powerless over clutter/hoarding-related issues. In my own case, for those issues, the power definitely has to come from outside of me! I spent some time earlier today doing some writing/journaling on step one when it comes to the topic of clutter/hoarding.

I'm glad that I don't have to be stuck forever on step one! There is help and hope. I believe that God loves me just as I am, and that God loves me too much to want me to stay just as I am!

Thanks Barb and Dianne. I am addicted to anything that covers up my feelings, although currently I am not actively using shopping, eating, alcohol etc so am dealing with many painful things as they come up.
I am having new realizations about myself and relationships now, not really fun, but want to be addiction free so is worth it.
I was addicted to approval by others, but never approval of myself by me. I went to Codependents Annonymous and well as alanon when I lived in So. Calif. I realized being codependent is not easy to get over, I still am realizing more that I do, to make life difficult for myself. Would much rather please friends and dogs than even look at my needs. Then I get exhausted and upset easily. When I was married to a strong person, I had no idea what I liked. Just easier to do what ever he wanted. Today looking at the yard and asking myself, what would you like it to look like? Do you want to change to a simpler design? Sometimes doing what I am familiar with isn't best for me. If it was for you I would fix it just the way you like. Still learning to take care of my needs. It is clear if I take care of myself better, I will be more tolerant of others. I went to 12 step programs since 1980, have not gone since joined this group, but am very aware there is wisdom and support if I am more open to it. If there was a 12 step program here for hoarders I would go weekly, and am so glad I know how to apply the 12 steps to hoarding, step 1: I am powerless over hoarding and my life has become unmanageable and and by the 12th step, having had a spiritual awakening, I am able to be hoard free after doing all the foot work.

http://al-anonfamilygroups.org/Podcasts/FirstSteps/?powerpress_pinw=519-podcast

Here is the link to an excellent podcast called Focus on Yourself from the Al-Anon website.
If you are the family member or friend of a hoarder, you might want to listen. There is no video; only audio.
Al-Anon is an organization for friends and families of alcoholics and drug addicts. Hoarding is not the same, but shares some characteristics of addiction. People who love and live with hoarders, alcoholics and addicts need to be reminded that they cannot fix the person they love and that they need to do what is necessary to care for and love themselves.
One of my very close friends fights alcoholism every day and I have found Al-Anon extremely helpful in learning how to be her friend, not her savior.

Thanks for the verse & everyones comments. I really needed them. The verse is especially appropriate. I heard once that hoarders get almost blinded or numb to our surroundings. Its the only way we can cope with the situation but because of it then the problem escalates. The lady telling me about it had a special word for it but it escapes me now.
I will utilize this verse to help change.
In recovery programs with 12 steps,they simplify the first 3 to
I can't.
God can.
Let him.
Its why I chose this name to remind me I need to Trust God & clean house. Which the 4th step of the program abbreviated down to.
When I'm feeling weak I boost myself with Phillipians 4:13 I can do all thing's through Christ who gives me strength.

I'm back from the southwest. It did me good to get away from my cluttered house for a while. I need a new perspective on life.
I very much enjoyed the pace of life in Santa Fe. It is much more relaxed than I am used to. Vacation gives you time to think about life in the present moment.
I visited Bandolier Monument where the first Native people settled in America. Their little cave houses are so small. They store only what they will need.
The Taos Pueblo houses are also small. They have only the bare necessities for life. There is no electricity or plumbing in the houses. Although, that is more primitive living than I would like, it does make me reflect on what things I could easily surrender.
I did not get to visit Earthship community. This is a modern day settlement that explores how to live simply while conserving resources. Next time I visit New Mexico, I would like to see the projects they are working on.
In my quest to learn to live more simply, I am reading Anne Wilson Schaef's daily devotional Native Wisdom for White Minds.
It is interesting to me as I read to discover that the core ideas of Native peoples are not foreign to Christianity. They are clearly expressed in the Bible. But western religion has chosen to place those ideas in the background.
Again and again I am brought back to seeking a simple faith and trying to learn day by day what it means to live out that faith in true honesty. The decisions I make each day either align with that faith or they do not. I will make mistakes. i will sometimes choose what feels good over what will do the most good in the long term. But that is all a part of growing in faith. And I am not finished growing yet.

LR so happy I just reread your post. I forget about visualizing so good reminder. I am going to visualize my bedroom organized before I go in with garbage bag and timer. It has worked in other rooms, it will work in there, just have to visualize in clean and believe change is possible. I have had a messie bedroom for as long as I can remember. Door shut.
This is difficult. Ok, trust divine inspiration will guide me, it is difficult to even imagine a clean bedroom. I just want to go do something else. I have learned to take action even when I don't want to so here I go to face the floor pile.

Diane, you said "Funny thing is my vision of clean areas was not nearly as nice as they turned out. I see this as my willingness to do the work was complemented by spiritual inspiration to make areas even better."

That is encouraging to me, because I have a hard time visualizing these days how things would look (or how I would want them to look) without the clutter. It's nice to think that even if my vision is still "cluttered," that if I'm doing the footwork, things might turn out much better than I would/could have imagined on my own. Thanks for sharing that.

Roxie I appreciated you talking about the need for a vision. I hold on to the vision of my neurotic moms people skills and now see that it is time for a new vision. I can now have a vision of peaceful interactions.
I know visualizing living area as I want it has helped, as well as yard and deck. Your post made me think I need to change my vision of remaining "hoard" rooms and garage. I have been stuck seeing them as they are, now need to see them as I want them to be.
Funny thing is my vision of clean areas was not nearly as nice as they turned out. I see this as my willingness to do the work was complemented by spiritual inspiration to make areas even better.

Enjoyed reading your posts, we all are learning so much by doing this journey together. Today I was a nervous wreck before company arrived. When she was here, I felt so much of what she said was what God would tell me. I need others in my life to experience spiritual connection, but have felt being alone is the only way to not make mistakes in relationships. Since I have experienced rejection so many times for comments I make, even on this site, I know all hurts give me a chance to forgive myself, get up and try to do better. Today I was a much better listener and carefully thought before I spoke, asking, what is my intention saying this, is it kind, will it bring us closer or push her away. I felt really good about our interaction. She later called and said how much she enjoyed our visit and again told me how great my place looks now. I think tooth pain and being reminded I can come across as harsh, caused enough misery that I am willing to work on change. I believe it is spiritual guidance to make me a more loving person to myself and others.

LR I could not have said it better, I am just seeing that I too, save things, and used to buy things for others, and like the soccer ball, they may never need or want it. I appreciate your ability to say in words what it running around in my head.
Today when I was sitting in my spot, and saw my little sign that only says "trust god" it dawned on me that all the spiritual books that I never find time to read can now be donated. sitting quietly looking at that little plaque and feeling the presence and knowing I will be guided as long as I am willing is enough. I really think if I trust, I do not need to have 40 skirts, 111 books on spiritual growth, privacy screens up everywhere and all the other junk I keep to feel safe, time and time again I know all will be well if I just let go of the clutter that is blocking me from the divine in life.

I've become aware that one thing that has contributed to my clutter issue in the past is wanting to "have whatever someone else might need" if/when they need it. That is to say, if they needed a certain tool, a certain this, a certain that, I wanted to be able to say, "I have one you can use!" Whether my motives were self-centered (wanting to feel "useful") or whether I was truly wanting to be helpful, I now try to think differently. First, I know I can't truly be helpful to myself or anyone else if I can't even find the needed item! Trying to save everything in case someone needs it doesn't work very well for me or for them in the long run.

Thinking in terms of spirituality, my clutter can just be a symptom of my "save the world" mentality. Am I, in a sense, trying to play God by all this saving of physical clutter? I will do better to let God be God and let myself be a human being who understands her limitations and doesn't have an exaggerated sense of what she can or needs to do to "save the world."

Abbey,
I'm glad you posted here.
I wrote my post because it is so difficult to see beyond the clutter to what it can be. It is easier to see what is right in front of us. But we have to work at not letting that discourage us.
Hang in there. We will get there. Step by step. Day by day. Choice by choice.
Celebrate the little victories.

Hi Barb,
I wish I could stayed focused on my vision of what I want my home to look like when my clutter is gone.
But all I am able to focus on is how it is now.
But I enjoyed your post.
Abbey

Here is my Bible verse for today:

"Without a vision, the people perish." Proverbs 29:18

Sitting in the middle of chaos, I have a picture in my mind of what my house looked like when I moved in and what it will look like again. it is not easy to keep my focus on this picture, but it is essential.

Keep your eye on the prize!

A friend shared this with me this morning:
He makes everything beautiful in its time.

My prayer today is: God, help me to make good decisions.
My days are filled with decisions---little ones like when to break for lunch and what to eat; big ones like which repair estimate to accept. The important thing is to choose as wisely as I can with the information I have been given and not sweat the small stuff.
Some days, I make impulsive decisions that I later regret. Some days I am stuck in indecisiveness.
Today, with God's help, I will do what I need to do to move forward.
I am not perfect. I will make mistakes. Very few mistakes are fatal. I can learn from my mistakes and be wiser for it.
It's all good.

LR, Thank you for your post. I am one who finds it difficult to shift gears when I can't do things the way I had planned or on the schedule I had planned.
There is an old gospel song that says "Make Me a Blessing Today". Life isn't about me. The world does not revolve around me. Being open to God's detours, does make life much more enjoyable. Often, I find that God needs me to just listen to someone. Not judge. Not offer advice. Just to let them know that they have been heard.
Listening and being in the moment with another human being is not a waste of time. It is a blessing.
May you be blessed today, LR.