Hi Subclinical

You have done FANTASTIC!
It takes a very long time to do this and you have worked very, very hard.
You have also been working out of the house with school, family and then you also have livestock with all that involves.

I see you
and I appreciate all you have done.
You give me hope and the will to go on. ((((HUGS))))


If Steven were truly willing to work on the issue then yes, I could.
I am able to detach from my emotions, act in all ways totally emotionless, just like Mr. Spock.
You wouldn't like to play poker with me.
Nobody ever knows my emotional state unless I allow myself to express them.

What really helps me about this book...
Speaking with Michael Tompkins online and bits from the book have given me permission to do things.
I live here too and I have permission to have the kitchen, bathroom, dining area, livingroom, porches, etc. and ALL hallways/walkways clear.
I have permission to eliminate dangers from fire, insects/rodents and being physically wounded by stuff.

He gave ME permission.

I would not forgive Steven either.

I get angry at him a lot and I don't even know him.

I guess I am wondering, the book seems to postulate that you can't work with the hoarder until you have forgiven her. You have been a proponent of the book. So what is it about the book that you find helpful?

Do you think it's possible to just start where you are and make progress without dredging up all the emotional backstory?

Dh saw me reading the book last night and said "that looks like a book I should read." And I said "no. It's for people who are trying to work with someone who doesn't think there is a problem. Mostly elderly parents. And it focuses on issues we don't have. It's about situations where you can't get to the toilet and there are magazines piled on the stove and such."

He said "that is not a problem we are going to have." I said "no. I didn't let it get that bad. And I have come a long way." And he said "you have come a long way. But you still have a long way to go."

I told him "that is one of the things you are not supposed to say. You are not supposed to tell me I have a long way to go. It's discouraging. You are just supposed to comment on how far I have come." (Which he never does without prompting.)

Hi Subclinical

Forgiven...
That is a very tough question to answer.
I am still living in a squalid hoard in a house where all maintenance has been severely neglected for decades and is overrun with pestilence and rodents.
Any attempts to try to get him to allow work to remedy this situation are met with angry violent outbursts from him.
He killed my cat when I removed his hoard from the livingroom, just ran her down in the driveway.
There is never any money for Veterinarian care or for my medical needs because it is all spent on adding to his hoard.

He is doing nothing to change things.
Maybe I would feel forgiveness if he still did not feel that he is right, that living this way is a noble thing and that I am the unreasonable one.

We used to have a good life.
We explored the desert and woodlands and beaches almost weekly.
We had shared interests in books and games and astronomy and biology.

Now he spends all his time tending to his hoard and despising me.

So very sorry that I cannot give you a happy positive uplifting response to your question.

But you are not the same as he is.
You are also working so darn hard to change things.
You do understand how living with too much stuff makes your DH feel and you care.
If I had that from Steven then yes, I do believe I could forgive the hoarding but not the cruelty he has inflicted.

I started a new thread on this, because it is feeling very emotional got me and I wanted it to be more focused and not woven into everything else.

I know the book is for the person who is trying to help the hoarder, especially Isley when the hoarder doesn't think there is a problem.

So, I am the hoarder, and I have been working on the problem for a long time, so it is not the same. But I still struggle to communicate with dh and I thought it would help.

The section on forgiveness was really hard for me. I don't feel like I need to forgive anyone who struggled with (or still struggles with) me, because I don't blame them. I understand why they did/do the things they did/do I understand where they are coming from, and it makes sense. I don't see them as having done anything "wrong".

Things that didn't work, things I didn't like, but not "wrong". More like when my Dad made potato salad and put bacon in it and forgot that meant I couldn't eat it. He always puts bacon in his potato salad. And technically, I could eat it. The not eating it was totally on me.

I, on the other hand, have done many things wrong. When the book started talking about focusing on how you wished things had been different, and accepting the reality of how they were, mourning losses and healing, I just wanted to yell NO!

I don't want to think about all the ways I screwed up my kids lives, I don't want to think about all the things I did wrong. I don't want to think about how I hurt them. I did my best. And it sucks that my best wasn't good enough. And there is nothing I can do to fix that. And I don't want my kids to think about all the ways I let them down. And I definitely don't want to hear them!

So now, I just don't want anyone else to read the book.

And I feel really sad about all the lost time.

Also, Tillie, I really want to know, if you don't mind sharing, if you have forgiven Steven?