Thanks Tillie for your input. One of the things my friend has said is that he just wants to be normal again. I suppose he believes if he has a companion that he'll have some normalcy in his life. I am starting to realize this may be a disease more than psychological although he did suffer a major loss as a child. I'm very sensitive and empathetic and knowing what I know now a relationship with him could be bad for both of us. Thank you again for your input.

This forum is also for people who are not hoarders/messies/clutterers.
Anybody affected by hoarding.
I post here because I live with a man who over the years has developed a severe hoarding/squalor problem.
It is not a problem for him but it is a major one for me.
Until a person who hoards truly wants to change, they won't.
They will make promises to change that they will not keep.
We can only change ourselves and trying to make someone else change against their will won't work.
Yes, a hoarder wishes things were different but actually making the changes is something they can't do until they are ready and even then they struggle to figure out how to change and keep from falling back into old patterns.
Even with all the self help books and online sources and specializing therapists, hoarding is an extremely complicated and difficult condition to break out of.

To everyone here, I know this forum is for hoarders to encourage each other. Please don't misinterpret my post as negative. I really like this man and it's all I can do not to run to his place and throw my arms around him but I respect his wishes that I not come to his place. I need your honest opinions on this as I'm really skeptical that he wants help or will try to clear the clutter. He says I'm reason enough but I just don't know. Thank you all for any comments you may have.

I met a wonderful man online. We had 2 dates then he wanted to get together and watch a movie. I ask him his place or mine? He replied back to me via text that it would have to be my place. Not fearing him and having the information I had about him I said OK. Later at my place as the evening progressed he was commenting on how clean and organize my house was and then went on to say that he couldn't have anybody at his house because of the clutter. He told me his daughter says he's is hoarder. After he told me this I began to ask him a few questions about his living situation. He just said that he didn't hoard things like you see on TV it was mostly just paper and that he really needed to get a big shredder so he could start shredding stuff. He made the comment he'd heard if you haven't used it for a year to get rid of it. I know this was a red flag! Thinking back on that evening we had gone to the grocery store and when we came in he asked where he should put the groceries I told him put them on the stove. He said there's no way he could put anything on his stove for all the clutter. It didn't hit me at that time just how bad his hoarding might be. I've watched enough and read enough about hoarders to know that hoarding is a psychological problem. So to test him I said next time we watch a movie it will be at your place. He told me it'll be quite a while before we can watch a movie at his place but give him a week or two. I devide after that evening that this relationship isn't going to work. But I like him and we talked and he convinced me that he will make a change and that soon I will be able to come to his hands. So I allowed him to come back a second not to watch TV and snack and talk. On that second visit he brought me a coffee pot that was an "extra" because he doesn't like the Keurig that I have. Next he's asking me if he can record movies on his DVR and bring it to my house to play on my tv! When he asked me this I realized he had no intention of ever having me at his place. I totally lost it and I told him there is no way that we will watch anymore movies at my house. Now I'm feeling guilty because he's such a nice person and my tendency is to help or fix the situation so it is very difficult for me to not answer his texts or phone calls. Since we only just met and he's already revealed this much about himself I fear that he's looking for someplace to have a life because he can't have one at his own home. He's lived alone a long time and suffers from depression from time to time but doesn't take meds. I too have depression but I take meds to control mine. So do I run from this now or can I help him?

I hear what Mo is saying. And perhaps this isn't the appropriate place, but I feel as though many hoarders need to understand the harm their behaviors cause to those that love them. Arguably, the anxiety a hoarder feels over discarding a meaningless piece of garbage is trivial when compared to the soul shattering anxiety felt by those who love a hoarder each time they walk into that environment. Thanks to the awareness raised by tv programs like Hoarders, I understand for the first time that my parents are long time hoarders (I am not). And, quite frankly, I'm tired of the excuses people make for themselves. It's selfish and it's hurtful. Please understand that I don't doubt for one second that my parents love me unconditionally, but one of the most hurtful things a parent has ever said to me is that I'm their most treasured possessions. Hoarders do love their posessions, and I feel as though an important part of therapy is understanding that people are not possessions. We have feelings too. I absolutely support this group, and anything that gives someone comfort and survival tips is wonderful. But sometimes you need a little tough love and a kick in the pants to heal. By all means. Do what works. But people just can't expect their love ones to endure all the pain and trauma that comes with this problem.

I hear what Mo is saying. And perhaps this isn't the appropriate place, but I feel as though many hoarders need to understand the harm their behaviors cause to those that love them. Arguably, the anxiety a hoarder feels over discarding a meaningless piece of garbage is trivial when compared to the soul shattering anxiety felt by those who love a hoarder each time they walk into that environment. Thanks to the awareness raised by tv programs like Hoarders, I understand for the first time that my parents are long time hoarders (I am not). And, quite frankly, I'm tired of the excuses people make for themselves. It's selfish and it's hurtful. Please understand that I don't doubt for one second that my parents love me unconditionally, but one of the most hurtful things a parent has ever said to me is that I'm their most treasured possessions. Hoarders do love their posessions, and I feel as though an important part of therapy is understanding that people are not possessions. We have feelings too. I absolutely support this group, and anything that gives someone comfort and survival tips is wonderful. But sometimes you need a little tough love and a kick in the pants to heal. By all means. Do what works. But people just can't expect their love ones to endure all the pain and trauma that comes with this problem.

MO:
I am sorry you are so hurt. I have been on both ends. I lived with a hoarder & now struggle as one being struck by lightning & ill; compounded by chronic grief {multiple family loss}Unfortunately it is an illness...like any addictions you can't just get over yourself. Like gambling you do hurt your family. There is shame & guilt that goes with it. Hate the illness not the person. Again, I cannot live with it either. I will fix it if I have to get rid of everything in my house but I do know that I struggle with it every single day and it seems to be not going away so I have to be prepared to deal with it the rest of my life. I miss having family over for dinner and movie night. I understand what it is like to keep your shades down so the neighbors cannot see in. I hope you find peace. Again, please be angry at the illness and not the person.

To Mo: Your messages on this thread reveal deep frustration, possible anger at the person you married who made you deal with their hoarding situation, but unfortunately also a lack of understanding of the true issue at hand with hoarding. While, on the one hand, I think it is important for you to vent those feelings and get them out in the open in order to kick off or continue your own healing process, I also believe it's important to point out that this board is mainly aimed at hoarders offering each other support in their clean-up (which is a long and often difficult but therapeutic process). As the subtitle of the website's logo reads: "Restoring homes and lives."
Your warning on here will hurt more than "help" anyone (although I doubt you have figured out the genuine issue with hoarding if you have reduced it to "loving possessions more than people" which is actually rarely if ever the case) as the majority of people on this board and, more importantly, in the Daily Chat section are hoarders themselves. Being thrown such stigmas of being unfit for married life and to be avoided at all cost (which can only result in even more feelings of despair, guilt and inevitable tragic fate of loneliness, needless to say creating a mental cycle of lifelong entrapment no matter what) will not help those of us who are trying very hard, every single day, to either lower their hoard or maintain their newly-found clean house (you do not become a non-hoarder magically because your home is clean, it's a long recovery). Your message may actually do more damage than good on this website and that is what has caused certain reactions on this thread that you have deemed "downplaying" your feelings (as a matter of fact, I have seen nothing but people acknowledging your feelings, but not necessarily agreeing with your self-made diagnosis for hoarders and conclusion that they are not suited for couple life).
Perhaps you will find more answers, more appropriate people to discuss your partner-of-a-hoarder situation with and a better space to vent if you were to join a forum/online community that is meant for children (and partners) of hoarding like Roxie kindly suggested if you were to post in the right place, not a community centered around hoarders helping hoarders like this support group is.

To others: do not read the original post if you are feeling particularly low, guilty or not good about yourself today. I would definitely mark it as a post needing a trigger warning. It could lead to more depressing thoughts and loss of self-esteem.

Some will be offended by my remarks, others downplayed what are very real feelings that those living and dealing with hordes experience. Some may expect some type of apology.

However, my remarks show clearly the emotional pain that comes with living with a horder. We are expected to be supporting and encouraging of even the smallest of baby step. Yet in reality we want to scream. Yes throwing out a pizza box is great, but I still can't sit on the couch, use the kitchen counters or walk through the basement. Yes, you have a problem but I am the one suffering. Living this way doesn't appear to bother you, but it pains me every single day.

AA and GA have a 12 step program that involves a step of seeking amends to those they harmed. I'm not sure if there is a horders anonymous or not, but that step needs to be included.

Just trying to warn hoarders that some of what this distressed person (OP or Original Poster) has to say may feel like a zinger.

If you think you might be sensitive to his perceptions, please don't read the original post.

Hello. I can read the pain in your words, and I am sorry for that. Fortunately, I was out of any relationship before I became a hoarder, so at least I don't have to have the guilt about some of the things you mention.

There are boards for children of hoarders if you search, which may have resources or referrals for you. There are some good books to read if you have an interest, and there are referrals here to help of several kinds in your area (see National Resources), including therapists for hoarders and their families.

But I am concerned that hoarders who come here for help to change will be hurt or discouraged by your words, which we don't need. There are people who post here who are married to a hoarder, but they've found a way to work with it and post most encouragingly here, since we hoarders on this board need encouragement after reaching out this far.

I know you've felt some kind of pain, over time, and probably have not known what to do. I know you perceive a "preference" for junk over other people, including yourself. And that IS how it appears. But internally for the hoarder, there is so much more going on, including fear, anger, grief, pain, mourning, panic, which they (we) try to fix with things.

I hope you can resolve your issues about your hoarder. You are correct in that a hoarder has to first acknowledge they have a problem, then reach out for help. And it is a long, slow process. I hope this helps.

Thank you so much, Dr. Mo.

That really clears up all of my life-long hoarding issues, having that genius diagnosis from you.

Let me diagnose you now. You are clearly someone whose worst problem in life is a stubbed toe. Maybe someday you will pull your head out and notice that there are other people on the planet besides yourself. Then again, maybe not.

Don't marry a horder and think you will change them. You will not.

Don't marry a horder and think they will love you more than their possessions, they will not. You will lose for their love of junk.

Don't marry a horder and think you will just handle the cleaning yourself. We won't be able to keep up. They will keep bringing in more and more just until you are over-whelmed.

Don't marry a horder and expect to have a social life. You won't, the scare of having anyone see how you live will end your social life.

Don't marry a horder believing their promises to sell the junk in a yard sale, or give it to the charity or use it in a project, they won't give anything up. They love junk.

If you marry a horder, your life will get worse and worse. You will get worn down by all the junk and more junk that never leave.

Horders love their possessions more than you, more than their children, more than their families, more than their self-respect and more than their health. They will not change nor ever understand that something is wrong. The problem will always be you are your unwillingness to live in filth. The problem will always be you wanting to get rid of their junk for no good reason. The problem will be you expecting to be able to use a counter, or a sofa or bedroom.

If you are dating a horder, RUN. There will be someone else out there.

I have read the books, and know they state never to say how much horders lover their possessions. But that is garbage. Hoarding is a love of possessions above all else. It is an additional to getting more and more and more junk. They don't care how much they hurt other or themselves, they just have to have their junk.