You are a discriminating and knowledgeable art curator. Christies and Sothebys are competing to hire you at a 6 figure salary.

As a test, you are getting an all expense paid art buying trip for one of their clients to ..... your house!

You may "buy" 6 framed pictures and 6 empty frames. The remaining framed pictures and empty frames are not of a quality worthy of the client (you) and should be removed from the premises.

A lot of people get hung up with perfection.
Don't want to do something because they do not know the most perfect way to do it.
So they procrastinate on projects because they feel they need perfection the first time out of the gate.
Perfectionism is such a high standard that it is really impossible to achieve without first a lot of practice.
Practice makes perfect and sometimes
"Good Enough really is Good Enough".
:)

Have some further thoughts swirling in my head.

There are no pictures on my walls, no art, nothing. Instead I have

in the office, 2 boxes of framed photos covered in dust
in the guest room another two boxes of photos and art in frames, dusty, a framed painting that was my mother's, a trunk with two old big paintings with wooden frames that hung in my childhood home
a big stack of my kids' artwork that I thought was frame-worthy, on top of my bedroom wardrobe covered in dust
a ton of never-used frames in 3 or 4 rooms around the house, just sitting
files and files of photos on the computer that I want to sort through, edit, print, frame, hang

All of this overwhelms me so much that I have been in this house 20 years and have never hung a thing. I would free up a huge amount of floor space just by framing and hanging all the pictures. But when I go to start I have no space to gather them, and I think I need to figure out exactly which thing goes on what wall... it is crazy.

Maybe I should just do it. Randomly put things in the frames they fit in. Dust the ones that are already framed. Just hang them somewhere, in some room, and if there are things I really don't want to hang, get rid of them.

Maybe a good goal is "no frames or things-to-hang left unhung."

I kind of am partway through the "vision" I want for my bedroom. Last week I took all the boxes and tubs out except for the photos and what's in the closet and wow, my bedroom looks so big and spacious! I sleep better in there now. I donated one trash bag of things to Goodwill from there and threw away one trash bag full. Now I go in and stare at it and feel stuck. I will keep re-reading this thread and figuring it out. I do want the space.

I know I get stuck on processes. For example. my son gave me a big jewelry box cabinet that hangs on the wall. I wanted it as a place to keep my jewelry but instead it sits on the floor empty. Why? Because it has photo frames on the front and I "need" to put the photos in. The photos are digital and I have to pick ones to use and order them. I also need someone to hang the thing. So it has sat for years... makes me sad.

So the problem being I moved all the junk out of my room and into the playroom. And now I think "I should move it all back into my bedroom so my child can have her playroom." Ugh.

I did one helpful thing today, I ordered cord labels. When I get them I will label all the cords and chargers and then keep them all together, and discard any that don't go to anything (probably half the cords I have no idea what they are for).

I watch Hoarders and it makes me throw things out.

Excellent post Dave! :D
Thank you for sharing. (((hugs)))

Tillie,
I was thinking while you were posting. Really great advice.

(You and Diane have been giving me "ouch" moments today.)

Why do you need to have a yard sale? Think very carefully about your reasons.

I have had a house.
A house and a storage locker.
An apartment and a house and a storage locker.
An apartment and a storage locker.
An apartment and a storage locker and a house.
A storage locker and a house.
A house.
A house and a house.
a house.
A house and a driveway ustorit.
a house and a garden shed.
Which i list to make the point that I know whereof I speak.
"It is hard to give up that dream, of having everything, all with a place, in a new home."

How about enough-things that are really useful-including SPACE-each with its own place in your current home. The life snapshot you see above is a picture that tells you "As long as you live with the I can stash it in the garage mentality, you will never, ever, ever, ever have enough room or a place for everything." There is a lady who used to post here who has more material things than I will ever have who would second that statement from her point of view of having the bigger and newer house.

"...hundreds of "little things" that go somewhere but I don't know where."

A goodwill bag is a very good place for a lot of those things. Mrs Dave has been very helpful to me in that regard.

The pencils go in the bag. the box of staples goes in the bag. the scratch pads go in the bag. the hair ties go in the bag. The McDonalds cars or unicorns go in the bag. Last year's Goodwill sweaters that shrank go in the bag. The socks that are too tight go in the bag. 49 extra pairs of shoelaces go in the bag. 5 boxes of nails you've no idea what to do with go in the bag. A bunch of the books you wanted to save last year are no longer important this year. They go in the bag. Since you no longer do scrapbooking, the (expensive) scrapbooking supplies go in the bag. When your kids are 14 and up, the tricycle goes with the bag.

You MUST have space to work and to live. I am a very very long ways from perfect in that regard but I understand the principle and it haunts me every day of my life.

Not only do we try to control things while we have them, we try to control things after we have them. Garage sale or I will get rid of this, but only if I can give it to ...... And so on. Big mistake. Keep it and use it or let it go.
Reading assignment. Tat's post again. Twice!

Your kids will likely not want 98% of what you save for them. DAV is going to separate your phone and its power cord anyway. Your friends, neighbors and casual acquaintances do not want the "valuable" or "useful" stuff you are saving for them. And so on. That is cold, brutal and real life which is happening around the fairy tales we construct about our stuff.

The best way to begin is to first visualize what you truly want for an area like the bedroom or playroom.
Or even as small an area as an end table or night stand.
Forget about the rest of the house for now.
Just visualize the room or table top all clean and tidy and arranged in a pleasing peaceful way.
Now to make this dream come true you need to remove everything that does not fit your vision.
This will create log jams in other areas of the house but as "they" say...
"you can not make an omelet without breaking a few eggs".
As you remove the items from the area try real hard to make a few decisions, keep/toss/donate,
put them in their labeled bag/box.
This is a pre-sort to help you later when you are finished with the task at hand.
Once an area is cleared and cleaned only allow items to go there that belong there.
Once you see your vision come true, this should help to motivate, spur you on, to continue this process in other areas.
Baby steps are best. Don't think about the whole house, only one small area at a time.

Very interesting posts this morning, thank you all. I find that this is hard, almost emotionally painful to think about and I am not sure why.

I always think, "if I can just buy a different house and organize it, it will solve everything." But that's not really true. It is hard to give up that dream, of having everything, all with a place, in a new home.

I see your point Dave about like with like. I have done some of that. For example all the Xmas stuff in the back pantry. All the halloween stuff in an orange tub in the garage. I have most of the toys and books and sports things sorted into tubs. In fact now that I think of it, the garage and office is 90% sorted like with like into tubs, and it does not "bother" me as much because I don't see it (and we have never used the garage for cars anyway). What gives me stress about the garage is that there is no room to add anymore tubs, so they have overflowed into the house, plus it is getting hard to walk in the garage and find anything. A yard sale would solve that part.

What bothers me most is the play room and my bedroom and "churning" (yes Tillie so true) the tubs of stuff back and forth between the two rooms. Those tubs and boxes are NOT like with like because there are like 500 categories of stuff. I mean I have a few cards, stationary, papers but not enough for a whole box. I have a baggie with door knobs in it, that we took off one door but might put back when we no longer need locks on it. I have some Crocs that I might wear, some various insoles that I use "sometimes," a fan I take on trips twice a year, all random stuff. The clothing is put together in tubs, so are the photos. I don't know what to do with the hundreds of "little things" that go somewhere but I don't know where.

I also say not to keep handling the same items over and over again.
That is called "churning".
Churning accomplishes nothing.
After a day/week/year/decade/s of churning stuff, you are still buried in it all.
The only way to reduce the volume is to make decisions.
Keep, toss, donate, sell.
If the decision is to sell, get on it right away to lighten the load and open up more free space.
Sometimes I even say OHIO,
Only Handle It Once.
Pick up an item and make the decision right now, then put that item in the toss, donate or sell bag/box.
If it is to be kept, put it where it will be kept.

It has been very sad to watch my hoarder spend decades churning his hoard in an attempt to organize it.
Such a waste of life.
All the good times he has missed out on, tending to his master "His Hoard".

The pallet of cargo.

What if the containers had like with like and labels.

In the shed. Clothes (at least 3 boxes). Towels. Sheets. Rag Tee Shirts. Sandpaper and drop cloths. Scrap copper pipe. Burberry raincoat and Tan and Red jacket. Some have dates of when I last reviewed the box. Moving into the garage I can think about where I should put them and what I should review again right now to try to get some immediate volume reduction I need.

The bedroom is terrible. But I have started some copier paper boxes. Many are cut down in height to allow more volume in a pile. CD's, Books, Medicine, Bandages, Office Supplies, Drawing, Blanket Bedding, Sheet Bedding and so on.

I think I am up to at least six cut down copier paper boxes of cd's between the bedroom and the basement. I suspect there are some questions to ask there.

If I do the medicine box and go through the bedroom, living room and basement and find that I have 10 or more packages of Osteo BiFlex purchased off the special price shelf at the grocery store over a period of at least 8 years, What suggestions does that make for me?

In the basement there is a box for old telephones. Somewhere I have a box for those old cables and power cords you are talking about.

This paragraph is a bit of an exaggeration, but it's the concept I'm after. If you have in the closet 15 hoodies, 40 pairs of jeans and 65 polo shirts, does seeing it all together help with both disposal questions and future shopping thought processes?

So, say in the garage, there is an intermediate step you can do that involves reordering and labelling prior to disposing or keeping in a final using spot. Counterpoint, Tillie often says "YOU CANNOT ORGANIZE A HOARD".

So Fear, Time, Space, Utility of items. You will have to decide what amount of effort you are willing to spend on a recategorization process.

I have been thinking about you and Diane and Tatoulia and 8 pairs of boots.

(If you have not been reading in the daily chat thread, scroll down through that and read Tatoulia's post to me yesterday.)

You have been sent round to be helpful to me.

The thre books I engaged with in 2013 when I had to clean a garage:

PLAYING BALL ON RUNNING WATER, David K Reynolds, PHD.
(He also has a website containing some of his writing which I showed the link for in Ann's thread.)

CLUTTERBUSTING, LETTING GO OF WHAT'S HOLDING YOU BACK. Brooks Palmer.
He also has a blog which I have sometimes found to be a very helpful refuge in time of turmoil.
I think you can get to it by searching Brooks Palmer Blog.

A MORNING CUP OF MEDITATION. John A Bright-Fey.

After seeing a variety of books from the library, Palmer's book was important enough to me to buy it new, but I think you can find all of those used on some combination of eBay, ABEBOOKS or HALF.COM. (I find that sometimes the really cheap books are cheaper on ebay or abebooks because of half.com's separate shipping charge policy.)

Anyway, what I think I am seeing now is how those three books have made a circle for me in dealing with fears and its hoarding manifestations.

Ok, I see your post. That didn't go quite where I was expecting.

Due to a combination of my responses taking me a long time to think out and write, and that I have to think out what I want to say next I'm going to be a bit getting back to you.

You can read the response I just made in Ann's thread I hate my mom-that is one of the pieces of my answer to you about dealing with fear. I need to talk a little bit about the other 2 books I used.

The things I am stuck on is that you need a starting point, a working place for sorting and recontainerizing and encouragement for the process.

Another brief idea for you to consider and I'll see if I can say a little more in the next post:
Like with Like. This is another way I have tried to deal with the fear of discarding the wrong thing or too many things (or not enough things) is to get likes together before I discard anything. When I get all my socks together (the noise you hear in the background is Tillie and Diane laughing) my stupidity and greediness become apparent. ( I haven't discarded any socks yet, but I have discarded other things. )

Tillie, I have been thinking about doing a yard sale this spring as soon as weather is warm enough, and then donating anything that is left. I may do that... problem being that the "keep" and "sell" stuff if, like, everywhere. I could probably go right now and pull about half of it from known places (mostly garage). I bet I could do it, it is just so overwhelming in thought.

Dave, thank you for trying to help me. So, with the making a list of where each thing would ideally go, you are just talking about the bar? Since that is my "public" clutter area? I can do that. Would you then think I should do the same with the other areas? I think the area that bothers me most is between my bedroom and the play room. I really want my child to have that room to play in, and feel guilty for having it packed with my junk (junk which moves back and forth from my bedroom to the playroom because the garage is full).

Let me try. For the bar:
what should stay there: dog cookie jar, food scale, bill file (so I can stick mail and papers in there before it grows into piles)
dollhouse: move to playroom, when it is not full of junk
Xmas stuff: downstairs closet with other Xmas stuff, need a mouseproof container for it fisrt
Pens, pencils, markers: in the pencil jar and the art supply box
papers: file some, toss some, put some in the pile in my bedroom of kids things I am keeping (ideally to be labeled and put into each child's box)
water bottles, couple of glass pans: I don't know. I would ideally like these in the kitchen in a cabinet, but the cabinets are full of non-clutter
random jewelry: put in my room on the bedside table, fix them, then return them to owners to put away
wooden tea box: um, not sure what to do with it, maybe toss it in my room until I figure that out? It is good for small random things to be sorted, like buttons or jewels
girl scout vest: I should sew the patches on and then hang it in my daughter's closet
dog poo bags: need a holder for these in the front coat closet. Don't have a holder or place for them.

That's most of it...

Another thought....
Rather than holding onto everything to sell at a later date should the need arise that you desperately need the money,
how about selling it now?
Have a yard sale, take stuff to a consignment shop, sell it on eBay, whatever.
Then take any money you get and put it in an interest earning savings account,
never to be touched until great need arises.
This way you will have the emergency nest egg and more open space in your home. :)

Hi, Im in from outside for a few minutes and saw your post.

Please do NOT make lists and lists right now. Let's go back to those questions-I asked questions to see if you would respond or if you were just here once to make a post and then be gone.

I also had specific reasons for the questions I asked. You have given me answers to the first 2 questions. Third one. Can you take a pen and paper and list those items and where you think they would ideally go? And then tell me what place in the house has the most occurences on the list? It is NOT important that you move them right now, it is just important that you do the list.

I want to try to help you, base on the struggles that I have had and what I am trying to figure out how to cope with now in my own life. But I want to try to do it in some steps, because I don't have the time to write some massive document right now, because it would overwhelm you if I did, and because the right things for you would not have yet emerged in conversation.

In regard to fear, right now you are talking about a broad process and fear of doing it. What I would like to do is dialogue with you a little bit, offer a reading suggestion, describing what it has meant to me, and help you to find a fresh starting point for clearing that seems meaningful to you. I think then that the fear may have a different perspective and you may be able to manage it better for one set of tasks. Once you have done that, then you will have a basis for a next set of steps.

I don't know for sure if I can help you "correctly". I don't know for sure if you can do it. What I DO know, is that what you asked, Total removal of fear for a complete house cleanout from someone giving you two sentences of guidance on a website is not possible. You are wanting to continue a cleanup process which you have already started and you will need to continue learning about yourself and applying new strengths as you go.

The things you have said about yourself and your situation lead me to believe that you can change your gathering and storing situation. It just may be challenging for you, as it is for each of us.

Many people have found the strength to get beyond their fears of the
"What Ifs????"
By using the "Serenity Prayer"

serenity prayer and history

Basically, it is doing today what needs to be done for you and your family all the while trusting in a higher power to guide you through any rough roads ahead.

hi Dave, thanks for the ideas!

Well, I have had most of these boxes of stuff for 10-20 years and I tend to sort through them once every other year or so. Usually I find a thing or two I can part with and put the rest all back. So it's all been gone through, but it makes me crazy. Like, one box might have several cords that I need to figure out what they go to (but the stuff they go to is who knows where), and other random bits like... maybe a few allen wrenches that go to a kit I can't find, some spare pieces to some furniture, some stuff I mean to find a place for... it is all stuff that is "homeless" if that makes sense and I get so upset trying to make homes for it all when there is no room.

Maybe that spreadsheet idea would work for the boxes too... but I do better with a pen and paper. However I tend to make lists and lists and lists of how I am going to organize everything but never get started on it. I have about 20 tubs of photos, a brand new scanner for them, but the cord, manual, etc is somewhere... ugh.

As for the dollhouse it was made by my Dad and I when I was a child. My daughter plays with it now. A tray or base that is movable is a great idea so I could put it in a different spot sometimes. It is too big for a tray but maybe a wooden base to attach it to would work. I'd like it to have a home in my daughter's play room (which is, right now, a storage area for like 30 boxes of random stuff!!)

Can someone tell me how to get over the fear that if I sell/donate/get rid of things, I will not have them to sell later when I am poor again? I have this paralysis that I cannot give anymore things away because I will end up broke again someday. I often think, if someone would just give me $2000 to save for emergency, I would give all this stuff to charity. But no one has offered, lol.

I have a small doll house all filled with furniture and accessories.
The main purpose of this doll house is to give me a place to mentally escape to. Play.
It is clean & tidy with no structural damage, no water leaks, no sewage problems and no insect/rodent/reptile infestations.
An ideal little house.
I found a medium sized serving tray with side handles that I placed the doll house on so that I could quickly and easily move it out of the way.
This way it can be on the kitchen counter then moved to the dresser top or where ever easily.


Good questions Dave :)

Hi Reader66 :)
Welcome!

A good place to start is to read
"Buried In Treasures"
The authors understand what you are having difficulties with and have ways to help you.

Also, to the left of this page is a link to
"Hoard No More Rescue Kit."
Just click on the ad to get to the website.

Thank you for posting today and we all hope you will keep us up to date. :D

hello,

Inspired by the "please post if you are a reader" topic, I want to say hello, and maybe get some advice.

I would say I am not an "active hoarder" but I have the mindset to hoard. I was a single mother, very poor with a bunch of little kids and the only thing that saved me was hoarding things like toilet paper, paper towels, feminine products, and food for a couple months before my husband left. I think that is where it started.

Now, my home is relatively neat. You can come into my front door, into a very neat uncluttered living room, dining, room, and kitchen. The kitchen and bathrooms are clean. No hoards there. Kids rooms are fine. Hallways fine. Here is the problem.

My two car garage is packed to the hilt with boxes and bags. I have gone through all of them and there is nothing I want to part with. My office is stacked with boxes of things that belonged to my parents and grandparents, all deceased, so I feel I need to keep all the items. My bedroom has boxes and rubbermaid tubs all over the place, full of stuff. I have gotten rid of so much stuff to goodwill and the dump and what is left I think I have to keep. But it takes up my whole bedroom, garage, office, half the family room, all the closets and the guest room. I can't find anything and want to fix this but get stuck every time I try.

What is in the stash that I think I have to keep:

clothing for both me and my youngest (I keep thinking about being poor, saving the clothes just in case, and saving her outgrown things to re-sell on ebay if we become poor again)

tons of cords, batteries, chargers, electronics parts that all go to SOMETHING but not sure what goes to what

lots of photos that I intend to scan and save and put into books

Things that were my children's when they were little that remind me of them

Baby toys, baby books, stuffed animals, high chairs, play pens etc because I bought all new for my youngest, and may have grandkids in 5 years or so and think I can use them for grandbabies. All in nice condition.

Appliances that don't fit in my small kitchen but that I used a couple times a year (food processor, mini blender, juicer, bread maker, crock pot, pans, etc etc)

Toys my kids outgrew but I think they will want them someday

Random things like candles, markers, school supplies, photo frames, trinkets given to me or from my childhood, camping gear, fishing poles, sports gear my kids might use, old computer disks with files on them I need to copy, lotions, vitamins, dog treats and toys, toys I bought to give as presents for parties, extra socks and underwear, greeting cards, cleaning supplies (lots of dusters, brushes, mop heads etc), fitness equipment... gosh there is a ton of stuff. Tricycles, scooters, bike tires... everything.

When I think of selling things I get overwhelmed. When I think of giving things away I get worried I will need them (Oh yeah this is what that cord was for!) or running out of money.

I have so many boxes and when I try to go through I do not know where anything goes, and I do not have room to set up a sorting space or room to store stuff.

Can anyone give me a starting point? How to get over it and do something? I watch Hoaders and try to get sorting and end up getting nowhere.