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Hoarding Help Message Boards : The Daily Chat : For Diane and Tat and Roxie
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For Diane and Tat and Roxie

Posted: 19 February 2015 - 12:51 PM
I have previously posted on the other board you reference, Dianne, but I prefer this one. It was Kimmy's pictures and story that really started me off on this journey and I was sad that the original website was closed. Many good posters on the current board and on this one right here.
Posted: 16 February 2015 - 01:30 AM
My Tat!

Yes, the corner of a dirty bed was no fun. It's messy again but not as bad and it is smelly as am I. It's far too easy during these dreary months to let things backslide. Tomorrow I must shower and put on a clean t-shirt. The blankets smell like cat and damp dogs so they should be washed too. Ugh.

The kitchen needs work again. Laura loves hot chocolate in the cold weather which is easy enough in the microwave. But too many dirty dishes have piled up and the sink is full of stuff soaking (for a long time). That's ok. I'll get to it.

Winter is always very hard for me as it is for so many people. At one time I loved the grey and cold when I was a moody, artistic, young rebel. I loved being alone on a deserted street listening to the quiet hiss of snow with a little sleet. And I loved it when I was a young mom and celebrated all the holidays and loved the snow days when the kids and I could go sledding or stay in and bake up a storm. Now it holds too many painful memories, my bones are way too old and I am frightened at being snowed in with no electricity, heat or water. Years ago someone had to push thru with a large truck, cut away part of a fallen tree that was pushing into the garage and get me to the hospital where I stayed for over a week with kidney problems. Laura and the animals were alone and she refused help from her father or sister because of the state of the house. So yeah, winter is no longer a fun time in these parts.

Snowing again for you with no place to put the snow. Yes, that is a nightmare. Stay safe, stay warm, take good care of yourself as you take care of others.

These are the times when I reach for every bit of help I can get from every place whether it is more contact with family, more reading, more web posting, more prayers alone in church. I also joined Project Beyond Blue, a depression support group. Therese Borchard wrote Beyond Blue, Surviving Depression and Anxiety which I had read years ago. Lots of great subgroups there ~ the highly sensitive person, pet lovers, nutrition and mood, cognitive behavioral therapy, etc.

Of course the danger in all this casting about for support is that it takes time away from just getting the housework done. Maybe it's all a backfire reaction to trying to do too much at once last summer. Mindfulness, baby steps, gentle firmness, balance, recognizing when I hurt and trying to address it rather than soothe it with hoarding.

Bitsy said, "I don't know how to live." She could have been reading my mind. I'll probably never know how to live like all the people I admire who seem to have been born with that skill. So I have to never give up and continue along in my own bumbling way, forgiving myself and not lose my sparks of hope and faith.

So good to hear from you again Tat!!

Posted: 15 February 2015 - 07:50 PM
Dianne! My heart leapt when I saw what you'd written. A little tear, a real tear, is making its way down my cheek. Thank you for posting. I miss you. I wish you and Laura the best. I did go to the squalor site and did learn about Kimmy. The only thing I can say to you is I want you to feel good and valued and happy. It can be a real struggle. I do not ever, ever want you sleeping on a corner of a dirty bed again. I am sorry to keep bringing that up but I want you to fight for a clean bed and a kitchen that makes Laura proud. I miss you very, very much. Please do whatever it takes. And check in if you can/want. Today is a new day (although it feels like the same day because it is snowing and cold here, again, with no place to put the snow). And yet,today there was sunshine, so I know it was a new day. Thank you for checking in. Thank you. I am so grateful to hear from you.
Posted: 15 February 2015 - 03:33 PM
Tillie, I agree. :)
Posted: 15 February 2015 - 03:32 PM
[/[color=3300FF]Tillie, I agree. :)size]
Posted: 15 February 2015 - 03:13 PM
Told you before we should leave the past in the past and live in the present.
I never claimed that I was perfect or someone to be looked up to.
Only ever said that I am a human with all the problems that entails.
Since you say it would not offend you, I will include you in any of my other greetings.
But I am never inclined to participate in any drama, except to try to clarify my side in the issue, if I have a side.
As I stated before, I have no grudge to nurture here or anywhere else in life.
As far as I am concerned, we buried the hatchet long ago in private.

Posted: 15 February 2015 - 02:43 PM
Tillie, your words to me were that you avoided me because you seemed to offend me. Even after I told you that we had our differences but you did not offend me you continued to ignore me. When I told you how hurtful your actions were you continued.

You do not aggravate and annoy me. My personality does not get aggravated or annoyed; it gets hurt. I tried to talk out our problems, you had "no desire".

I have no "campaign to get all the others to leave with you" (me). I am simply telling them how the other board is working for me. Giving examples of that just shows what I need and was looking for. I have not given my user name there because I don't want to be followed. It's a fresh slate. If they want to check it out fine. If there was a new hoarding book available it would be recommended. Anything that helps hoarders in their quest to improve should be encouraged. There's a lot of help out there.

I have no grudge against you, Tillie. Never have. What I did have was *hero worship* at how you handle life. What I did have for you was admiration. What I did have was the tendency to see you as a leader and someone far ahead on the path. That was my mistake, my fault and it no longer disturbs my peace. Now I see you as a person with flaws like myself.

I believe people can have differences, even strong ones, and still remain friends. I can still see the possibility of friendship between us. We had it once; it could be revived.

I'm willing to rebuild a good, supportive relationship with you Tillie. Remember I have kept my word about our deepest exchange. I do care about you and would like us to be friends again. It will take time to build trust but we can do it.

Will you accept?
Posted: 15 February 2015 - 01:46 PM
Sorry you feel this way.
I explained to you that I was keeping my distance because I do tend to aggravate and annoy you.
Evidently you feel there is something more going on here and honestly, I have never had any animosity towards you or anyone else here.
Again, sorry you feel this way toward me.
Good luck with your campaign to get all the others to leave with you.
I have never tried to "rule" this message board or expecting anyone to feel they must answer to me.
Sorry you are reading too much into my postings here.
I only tried to be positive and helpful.
Please let your grudge of me go, you will feel better for it.
Posted: 15 February 2015 - 01:23 PM
To Diane and Tat and Roxie, my dear friends who I miss so much ~~

I haven't allowed myself to come back here since my good-bye post but today I did and read Diane's post.

Diane said, "I read the good bye post this morning and it really affected me, thought about it on and off all day. Wondered if I am missing out on the "cure". Then realized I have invested so much time on this site, and changing to another site may motivate me to try harder, but too much input is too overwhelming for me."

Diane, I also had invested so much of myself on this board ~ I spilled my heart, soul and guts ~ and in hindsight I am sorry to have posted as much personal information as I did. Because, as you felt at times, I came to feel this was not a *safe* place for me to be.

I tried to keep my *leaving* non-emotional and what I posted was true. Now I feel it's time to be more honest at the expense of really becoming hated on this board.

It was obvious that Tillie was ignoring my posts. I apologized to her numerous times here and in private emails. I told her being ignored and shunned made me feel invalidated, belittled and demeaned. On a board where there are only 2 or 3 regular posters it's pretty pointless to continue.

I would have told you how badly I needed help and support again but what was the point? I knew I wasn't liked and my posts would be ignored by Tillie who considers herself the leader here. It no longer felt like a safe and supportive place for me to expose myself and my failings.

Yes, the other board has a lot of postings which at first were overwhelming. But I fit into some with like-mined people and the constant support and encouragement has really been uplifting. I'm getting back on track.

You're right, there will never be a *cure*. I have all the books and workbooks and tapes. Remember we talked awhile ago about 12 step programs? I feel like hoarding is like an addiction. We have to do the hard work ourselves but having people who have been in our position and know how to give encouragement in every situations is vital to our everyday health. That's what I am getting from the other board.

Tat, your deep compassion on this board is what I knew I would miss the most. I absolutely hated leaving you. The way you live your life in service to those most needing help lifts my heart and soul!! I truly love you for that and thinking of your kindnesses helps me keep hope in this world.

For Diane and Tat and Roxie, if you go to the Stepping out of Squalor site and go to the General Board you'll see a thread called Do You Have a Trauma Corner That You Just Can't Face? by Warrior Kimmy. Many years ago Kimmy pulled herself out of extreme squalor. Her responses on that thread come from knowing how it can be suicidally depressing to live as a hoarder. So her responses now as she shares her struggles (yes, even now after 13 years) to keep clutter under control and help others with heavy issues are SO compassionate I have felt loved like a child being held and comforted and encouraged by a sweet mother.

The wonderful thing about that site also is that there are all kinds of people there from all over the world. People who live in mansions, condos, townhouses, trailers, farmhouses, rental apartments, young, old, married with children, or never married with no children. So there is no need to ever feel *out of place*. There is no meanness there because there is no jealousy or jostling for positions or one-upmanship. Everyone there is involved because they want to receive and give help. There are moderators (a group so there is no dictatorship) who would remove any inflammatory posts and if necessary ban a repeat offender. You can edit or delete your posts or ask a moderator to do it for you. The mods are also people who have spent well over a decade improving their lives. You can send PM's (private messages) so you can talk with someone without having to exchange emails. There are lots of fun areas to go to for posting tada's and an area called By-Ways for posting about off topic stuff. I think there is a 24/7 chat for world users but I've never been in it.

Anyway would I have stayed here? I think so. But it got to the point (3 different times) in the past two years that I posted, that I went to bed and woke up for days on end thinking and fretting about how I had offended Tillie and how I could make it better. Twice I took some time off, the third time was my good-bye.

That's not really Tillie's fault. I gave her power over me that I shouldn't have. I depended too much on her approval and being in her good graces. The whole situation reminded me of other times I had done the same thing ~ let someone else's opinions of me affect my peace of mind to the point where I became more depressed.

I am still in the process of learning to be discerning. When I am wrong, admit it and apologize. When someone apologizes to me, accept it graciously without making the person feel further discomfort. I think I have that down. What I need to discern now is when I have apologized to stop groveling and continue feeling not good enough because someone refuses to accept those apologies. To let myself off the hook by saying, ok it now becomes that person's issue. Maybe life still needs to teach Tillie about not holding grudges, or being passive-aggressive or continuing to inflict pain when she has been asked not to. Maybe she has experienced so much pain in her life she hasn't been able to let it go and feel compassion. I can't presume to get inside her head; I can only try to put myself in her position and imagine what life feels from her perspective. I do need to thank her and the universe for giving me the same lesson I have needed to learn over and over ~ never give an unworthy person power over my spirit.

None of this is said with any sarcasm or intentional meanness. I still wish Tillie and everyone here all the best with special wishes for improving lives and making heartfelt connections with friends.

Roxie, my dear cat lover sister, I have missed you very much also and wish you the very best with your health and your home. I am still praying for the safety of your son who was overseas. If he is back I will continue to pray that he will be a huge help and comfort for you.
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